61-79-list-digest Saturday, May 30 1998 Volume 02 : Number 321



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Re: Rancheros
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Rancheros
FTE 61-79 - manifold vs. ported, was FE timing
FTE 61-79 - 460 in a 4x4
Re: FTE 61-79 - SunPro tach question
Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI on a '73 302
FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock 600 Vacuum
Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI on a '73 302
Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI
Re: FTE 61-79 - SunPro tach question
FTE 61-79 - Brake light update
Re: FTE 61-79 - Carbs
Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI
FTE 61-79 - Re: Ranchero List
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Rancheros
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE timing question
FTE 61-79 - H*lp! Need 1963 front Disks??
Re: FTE 61-79 - headers for f150 4x4 with 429
FTE 61-79 - steering wheel
FTE 61-79 - Re: EFI on a '73 302
FTE 61-79 - Re: Clothespins on fuel lines
FTE 61-79 - Re: Sonoma County Gas
Re: FTE 61-79 - Manifolds for 460
FTE 61-79 - Havin a look at some trucks !
FTE 61-79 - looking for a 77-79 extended cab 4x4

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Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 07:56:44 +1000
From: james stuart watson
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Rancheros

Just a note from a new member, i own a 77 Ranchero with a 400ci
donk,auto, etc.
Where is the Ranchero list? I need some info urgently on them.
many thanks
- -Head


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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:10:39 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Rancheros

donk?

- ----------
> From: james stuart watson
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Rancheros
> Date: Friday, May 29, 1998 2:56 PM
>
> Just a note from a new member, i own a 77 Ranchero with a 400ci
> donk,auto, etc.
> Where is the Ranchero list? I need some info urgently on them.
> many thanks
> -Head
>
>

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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:21:26 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - manifold vs. ported, was FE timing

>> would prevent this from working out would be if you cannot then
>> lower your idle speed enough to keep the engine from running-on
>> after the key is turned off
>
>Then you get an electrical or vacuum dashpot to hold the idle speed
>which collapses when the engine stops or the key is shut off, closing
>the throttle plate completely which prevents the run on problem AFAIK
>
No, that wouldn't work because if the throttle plates can be closed more
then you have not backed off of the adjustment screw as much as possible.
I am saying you already have the plates as closed as they are going to get
and still you get run on or maybe it doesn't run on but your idle speed is
too high (some throttle plates have holes in them, some carbs have an idle
bypass, whatever).
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:24:32 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460 in a 4x4

>The 460 was NOT available in a 4x4 until the early 1980's (maybe 1983??) It
>was available in 2wd however. The conversion kits (like L&L, Hooker, etc)
>have just made it easier to do the swap...Thats all. Call and ask L&L...they
>will tell you the same. Ask a FORD dealership for engine mounts for a
factory
>460 4x4 in 1979.....they will say "Never made them!!!!". Hope I don't make
>anybody made....but the truth is the truth!!! Wayne Grabley
>
Wayne, who said they were? The guys original post said the 460 was not
available in an F150, he didn't specify 4x2 or 4x4. Did I miss a digest here?
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:24:12 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - SunPro tach question

>From: "David Butts"
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - SunPro tach question
>
>It is the ground. I had the same problem with a small tach.
>It is grounding through the dash lights normally, and when
>you turn on the lights, the ground goes away, and the thing
>stops working.

Hmmm... this doesn't sound right. When the switch is off, the power lead
for panel lights has no power and it certainly is not grounded. If any
alternative ground exists, it might be the tach signal line since it taps
into the negative side of the coil primary circuit, which eventually leads
back to ground. I will get out the VOM and test light this weekend to
figure this out, but I'll probably check the bulb first.

Another symptom: While I was out at lunch, I tried turning on the lights
and then turning the panel light dimmer all the way down, and lo and
behold, the tach comes back to life w/ the panel lights completely dimmed
(i.e., no power coming in on the light circuit). By turning the dimmer, I
could make the needle move.

If it's not the bulb (simplest answers first!), then I will be checking
over the rest of the external wiring and inspecting the inside of the case
for loose thingies.

Those flux capacitors are mighty expensive, and my Mr. Fusion has been on
the fritz ever since that last jump to hypertext. Any more ideas?

Dave R. (M-block devotee)


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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:27:50 -0400
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI on a '73 302

Deacon wrote:
>

> I just finished helping a friend install a Cobra upper and GT-40
> lower intake on his '94 Mustang. He gave me his stock upper and lower
> manifold and also a 60mm throttle body. I have hopes of one day putting
> this on my '73 F100 302. With all the parts I need to collect, the
> project is a ways down the road. I will try and pick up most of the
> parts at the junkyard. I understand the same intake is use on Tbirds so
> it should make things easier to find. Did Effies running EFI 5.0s use
> the same intakes?

What years? 86 through 88 T-birds used the non-HO 5.0. 86, 5.0 HO's had
smaller manifold/throttle body than 87+. I believe, when 87+mustangs
went to truck heads and better intake, T-bird stayed the same as 86. 94+
stangs had manifold with curved extension before throttle body to clear
new body style. I didn't think 89+ T-birds had this extension. 93+ cobra
mustangs used the setup you installed in your freinds. It's interesting
that you say someone picked up a cobra setup from an explorer, but I
guess they get wrecked also!!

>Aside from the O2 sensors in the exhaust it looked to
> me that the other sensors are located in the air cleaner, mass air unit
> (I think that's what it's called) and the throttle body. The fuel rails,
> injectors, wiring harness, electric fuel pump, fuel presure regulator
> and EEC are also needed to do this. I think I may also need to change my
> ignition system.

Just a note, here. without any of the emission equipment, your computer
will be running with several codes permanently stored in it. I have run
with EGR and air pump disconnected for a good while with no ill affects.
I have heard that timing needs to be redone if you ditch EGR. Not sure
if you can reset base timing and have that be OK. Like I said, I
disconnected EGR vac line for several years and everything seemed OK.

Do yourself a flavor and get the later ign setup with TFI module
mounted on fender. TFI modules go often due to heat of distributor.

>Does the EEC interact with the TFI ignition module?

Yes, controls everything except base timing (before computer timing
added) and dwell. Dwell is inherent in TFI module. Base timing is set by
pulling connector, just like disconnecting vac advance.

>If
> I used an MSD ignition module in place of the TFI module could I still
> use my existing distributor and coil

I'm not sure how happy EEC would be If it was not getting SPOUT (spark
out signal). It may assume ign is dead and go into some sort of limp
home mode.

>. If I need to use a new distributor
> how can I tell the difference between a roller blocks and non-roller
> blocks.

All the late model blocks were not roller, only HO motors. I have no
idea how to tell. A non HO 5.0 has the intake opposite the HO motors. HO
motors had intake toward passenger side.

> I would like to hear what people think of doing this. Not just the
> tech gurus but anyone. Once the parts are collected it's not that much
> work putting it together or mounting the control modules.

May want to get aftermarket harness to simplify install. Also may want
to do this to avoid having bad connection or bad ground in old harness.
Nothing worse than a bad connection gremlin in an EFI harness,
especially grounds. May be worth the added expense of harness. Probably
much easier to install with aftermarket harness as wires will prob be
longer.

>Theoretically
> it should increase bottom end

Midrange torque should skyrocket from long runner intake.

>and get better mileage.

Maybe, but the newer, heavier trucks don't seem to do that much better
than carbs, milage wise (Gary's gonna eat up that statement :-)). I
guess once you get to a certain weight, with a relativley small motor,
you have to gas it quite a bit and EFI doesn't seem to help as much.

> Most of all look berry berry cool!

No doubt!!

>No matter what kind of point you would like to make,
> I'd like to hear it. If you have tech info both +\- I want to hear it
> most of all. TIA
> Later!

Obviously, you will need to go mass air. Even in doing that, you may
need a custom chip piggybacked onto the ECU. There are several really
good tuners around the country that will burn you chips until you are
happy. As for all the parts for 150$. I just paid 100$ for and upper/
lower from 87+. I have an 86 and want to upgrade. 150$ seems a little
low for all that is needed.

OX
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:32:12 EDT
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock 600 Vacuum

Ohio Bill,

I checked out my carb tonight, and it looks like my vacuum advance is hooked
to the driver's side....like I said, my 390 pulls clean all through the
range....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:45:01 -0400
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI on a '73 302

Donald R. Haulsee wrote:


Mustang guys don't like the 94 up EEC because it pulls
> timing on shifts in order to limit transmission breakage. Ford calls this
> injection SEFI because the injectors are fired individually in sequence.

What the mustang guys don't like is OBDII. This uses the EEC-V vs
EEC-IV. I'm pretty sure 96 was the first year for EEC-V, as it was the
first year for the 4.6. As for SEFI, that has been used since 86, the
first year for muliport fuel injection on cars. Some 85 trucks had
mulitport EFI, but all trucks had bank fire injection.


> 1. What camshaft is in your 302? If the cam is no hotter than a stock GT HO
> cam then you could use SPEED DENSITY (86-88) injection. It's much cheaper
> and is easier to wire.

I wouldn't recommend it, speed density is hit or miss with some
running blowers with it and being fine , while others doing minimal mods
and having all sorts of problems.

OX
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:54:45 -0400
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI

am14 chrysler.com wrote:
>
> Steve D. writes: >> I think EFI has a lot of good things going for it.
> I've been toying with the idea of grabbing all the EFI stuff off of a late
> 460 truck and adapting it to my FE390... Mostly cuz it would really freak
> people out when the hoods open, but also because I'd like to have more
> "hands-on" experiance with EFI. A little better mileage would be cool
> to...
>

460 never came with mass air, Speed density from 460 on 390 would be,
...interesting!!!

> I like the way EFI starts and idles when its cool/cold, and have been
> thinking of making the conversion on one of my old 460's to late model EFI
> (sometime in the future - not now). I'd like to know when the 1st year the
> 460 was offered with individual port fuel injection (not TBI)??? Anyone
> know??

Never. I think they wer all TBI

> I might also want to get the auto tranny from the same donor for
> installiation in my future motor home!!! The EFI and automatic would suit
> SHMBO just fine I think.

Later years had EEC controlling E4OD also.


OX
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:47:25 -0400
From: "John Miller"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - SunPro tach question

taken from two listers I think

> >It is grounding through the dash lights normally, and when
> >you turn on the lights, the ground goes away, and the thing
> >stops working.



> Hmmm... this doesn't sound right. When the switch is off, the power
lead
> for panel lights has no power and it certainly is not grounded.



> Another symptom: While I was out at lunch, I tried turning on the lights
> and then turning the panel light dimmer all the way down, and lo and
> behold, the tach comes back to life w/ the panel lights completely dimmed
> (i.e., no power coming in on the light circuit). By turning the dimmer,
I
> could make the needle move

You have a circuit that is using the lamp power side as a ground... yes I
said ground.. No it is not a "ground" but there is what is called
"potential difference" meaning it is less positive than the tach circuit,
that is until you apply power to that light circuit, same as when you use
the dimmer you take away and add to the "potential difference". Check all
wiring to the Tach for correct routing etc. I think you will find your
problem straight away. You may even find inside the tack there has been
some miswiring done at some point. your troubleshooting is fine, keep at
it.


John Miller, FoMoCoNUT Gibralter.net
96 F-350 Reg Cab XLT, 4x4, 460 w/ A4OD, My Baby "Baloo"
75 F-100 Reg Cab Ranger, 2wd, 360, C6, Daily Driver "Lucy"
and "always" looking ! ! !
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:53:05 -0400
From: Garry Bowling
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Brake light update

Pat and Gary stated you could try to adjust brakes or realign the pin in
the portioning valve. I have a spare off of a 69. Can it be cleaned
and used. I would just as soon remove the one on my truck now and
replace it. I also assume once this is done I must bleed all four
wheels again.
How does the valve work in relation to the brake light. I tried
cleaning the contact but it didnot do any good. I really would like to
get it working. It is just one of nagging things that needs to get
fixed.
Garry
67 longbed

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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:49:15 -0400
From: "John Miller"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Carbs

Well gang I have this to say right now, more to follow. I have just came
home to 385 emails to catch up with but I want to comment just a little on
this thread first even before I officially respond with what my research
has discovered.
Maybe I am seeing this wrong but I want everyone to know, especially
Garr ford.com.whatever that I only stated "my" creed or likes as to what I
put on my Fords.. If you have ever heard the phrase; "Freedom never has
quite the taste as it does to those who defend it" please think about it. I
would support someone who writes in wanting to know the best way to use
their truck as a flower planter or how best to light it on fire... I really
don't care what anyone does or what makes their boat float. I have tuned
all type vehicles for over 21 years now, not as in 21 being my age. As it
turns out I am delighted to find out that ONE and only ONE FoMoCo product
did have the quadrajet, ONE that I have never had the pleasure of seeing or
else. I have spent that 21 years working an average of 11 hours a day
making what came to me run the way it was designed or redesigned to do,
didn't really have the extra hours in a day to become a walking book of
little known ford facts, I did however, take someone to task, asking for a
"reference" not opinions or speculations. I do take experience or well put
together answers almost as reference however and don't think for a minute
that I slight anyone for drawing back on memory. What has me ranting if you
can't tell, is someone lecturing me with statements of " my ears are closed
on the subject" is this a Ford corporate buzz phrase? Many of these
Outsource suppliers you mentioned were not owned by GM at the time of there
supply to FoMoCo. The Auto trans you spoke of was used by many including
Rolls-Royce and Bentley. Frigidaire was really "Frigidaire" at one time as
was Delco. GM doesn't even own Frigidaire anymore it is Japanese owned now.
The years we are speaking of ... geeeees Pontiac had Pontiac engines, as
did Oldsmobile and Buick.. AMC has always been a compilation of parts..
Well if this gets me a FTE "speeding ticket" or whatever so be it. After
catching up on the email, I will post what I have found to be fact about
the Quadrajet being installed on a Ford. As to whether or not I believe
this is a good carb, I think it is awesome, always have. I became of lover
of the Quadrajet because I knew how to set one up, make it perform, not be
a "Quadrabog" as most thought of it during it's production heights. I want
to finish my Ranting with a positive note, that is, I learned something
about an obscure Ford production. Thank you and thank Ken for the list.
That said, No one should ever feel the need to defend his likes or dislikes
here in this forum. We are all Ford lovers, underdogs for many years...
What anyone wants to do is his business.. We are really starting to see
some great innovation on this list.. lets encourage it.


John Miller, FoMoCoNUT Gibralter.net
96 F-350 Reg Cab XLT, 4x4, 460 w/ A4OD, My Baby "Baloo"
75 F-100 Reg Cab Ranger, 2wd, 360, C6, Daily Driver "Lucy"
and "always" looking ! ! !
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:58:58 -0400
From: "John Miller"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI

- ----------
> From: luxjo thecore.com

> > thinking of making the conversion on one of my old 460's to late model
EFI
> > (sometime in the future - not now). I'd like to know when the 1st year
the
> > 460 was offered with individual port fuel injection (not TBI)???
Anyone
> > know??
>
> Never. I think they wer all TBI

well I am not going to speak about "all" but my 96 sure is a sequential
port fuel injection and I love it too, I think the idea you have is long
overdue.

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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 22:38:49 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Ranchero List

>Return-Path:
>From: owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:50:24 -0400 (EDT)
>To: owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: BOUNCE 61-79-list ford-trucks.com: Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 4 Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 7
>
Forward for: RevFudgie aol.com

Howdy, all!
I'm new to the group here, and this is my first posting. Somebody inquired
as to whetheror not there's a Ranchero Discussion Group. Well, I also
s*bscribe to the Falcon Discussion Group. About half the people in that group
own Rancheros. I think this is the closest you are going to get. They're all a
bunch of good folks; very informative, funny, honest and quick to reply. You
subscribe to this group by visiting Ford Falcon On The Web at
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.falconclub.com. I get about two postings a day, and they are easy
to read, as the postings go directly into your mailbox (no download), and the
lines are single spaced.
I currently own (and drive daily) a 78 F100 Custom Shortbed. It's got a 302
with Edelbrock 650, RPM intake and RPM cam & lifters. Hooker Competition
headers, flowmasters, and that 3-speed with overdrive on the floor in the 4
speed shift pattern. I'm installing a Toploader soon. It's Piano Black w/
black interior.
It has its host of problems, so I'm sure I'll be snooping around, looking
for answers.
Glad to be aboard!

George Dobson
Kustom Kreeps
Baltimore
78 F100 Kustom
67 Falcon Sports Coupe
64 Buick Wildcat
62 Olds F88
62 Falcon 2-door station wagon
busted knuckles

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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 23:14:40 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Rancheros

At 07:56 AM 5/30/98 +1000, you wrote:
>Just a note from a new member, i own a 77 Ranchero with a 400ci
>donk,auto, etc.
>Where is the Ranchero list? I need some info urgently on them.
>many thanks
>-Head
>

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.falconclub.com

Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 23:14:53 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE timing question

Forwarded for: sdelanty sonic.net
>> Usually You don't want vacuum at idle.
>> Port on the left....

>Can someone splain this to me?? At idle you have the leanest mixture
>the engine ever sees so it stands to reason that you also need the
>greatest advance (without regard for time segments being longer). At
>higher rpms you need more advance due to shorter time intervals
>during firing strokes but you also have richer mixtures at WOT so
>they kind of c*ncel each other to a degree but at cruise you again
>have very lean mixture AND shorter time to burn the mixture so more
>advance is needed, even more than at idle which is accomodated by the
>mechanical advance.
>
>The ported vacuum happened due to NOx AFAIK since lean mixtures bun
>hotter and produce more of this?? I've always used manifold vac and
>have had good performance this way so if you don't care about
>emissions what's the best and why??

On the edelbrock, the "ported vacuum" gets it's vacuum from just
above the throttle plate when it's closed so the ported and unported
fitting have exactly the same vacuum signal when the throttle plate
is open more than a few degrees.
One problem with using unported vacuum at idle is that if You set
up the carb to give a nice idle when warmed up, say with 18" of vacuum
then when the motor is cold and there's only 14" of vacuum it wants to
idle much to slow. I found it almost impossible to get a nice stable
idle speed over a wide range of operating temps with unported vacuum.

Too much advance at idle also increases unburned HC, and I do care
about emmisions. If I can get the same performance with less emmisions
than that seems like the smart thing for me to do...
I don't think ported vacuum has anything to do with NOx, since NOx
is only an issue under load when the combustion temps and pressures
are fairly high. Some carbs had another vacuum port that got it's
signal from the venturi rather than just above the throttle plate.
These usually use a 2-port vacuum advance distributor with one side
connected to manifold or "regular" ported vacuum and the other side
connected to the "venturi" vacuum to retard advance as the engine
load (airflow) rises. THAT was a NOx thing...

Steve
Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

Opportunity may knock only once, but temptation
leans on the doorbell.


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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 23:15:25 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - H*lp! Need 1963 front Disks??

Forwarded for "Kevin Leone"

>>Does anyone know of a set of front disks that can be adapted to fit a 63
>>2wd? It has the stock front axle? PLEASE HELP!!


>Don Wrote-
>As for the disks I can't help but the power booster it is a simple swap.
>I used a booster from a 65.

Don, thanks for the info. How about a proportioning valve? Is there one
on the 65-79's? Do I need one, or only if I have disks in front? Does
your truck still have drums all around? If it does, what kind of shoes
do you run? Mine screech no matter what I do. I've had the drums turned
while torqued to the hub & everything. SCREEEEECHHHH!!


Kevin Leone
63 F-100 stakebed
Y-blocks rule! : )

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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 23:52:18 EDT
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - headers for f150 4x4 with 429

you're right,i too had a f150 2wd with 460,i mean't to say f150 4x4,of course
i could be wrong there also.
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:51:41 -0700
From: "J.Scott Harkema"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - steering wheel

You can match the texture by putting a thick
layer of clear silione on the wheel, let it set
&then slowly peel it off.When you finish the repair
spray a nice heavy coat of primer on the wheel,let it
get a little tacky & push the silicone into the primer.
I'd practice on a junk wheel first to get the feel for
it.
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:13:26 -0700
From: Pat Brown
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: EFI on a '73 302

Deacon, and anyone else considering DIY-EFI:

Run, don't walk to your nearest bookstore. Pick up the following:

Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control
Charles O. Probst, SAE
Bentley
ISBN 0-8376-0301-3
List $29.95

I bought mine at Barnes & Noble, it's a stock item. It covers all
Ford & Merc EFI from 1988 to 1993 (print year). Theory, sensor
descriptions, wiring diagrams (EFI/EEC) for all vehicles listed,
along with modification suggestions, etc.

My '94 T-bird matches the '93 diagrams in the book, I have only had
to use it once for repair, but was pretty familar with the system
already, having studied the book beforehand, when I needed it.

A little off-topic, but an interesting story:

A buddy of mine is putting a turbo on his Miata, he borrowed my
copy of this book to learn about the EFI beforehand. In order to
evaluate engine tweaks, he wanted a chassis dyno :-). Not being
able to afford one, he hooked a laptop with a Texas Instruments
DSP (Digital Signal Processing) chip to the critical sensors on the
engine. This allows him to record the sensor output during a test run,
which consist of a marked piece of straight road. A pass is made in
each direction, saving results on the laptop. Then at home, the data
is crunched, and plotted. From time and RPM, he can compute
acceleration, then torque and horsepower. This result was then
multiplied by a 'fudge factor', in order to calibrate the magnitude
of the graph to match published figures. Now, when tweaking hardware,
he can compare the results to the original :-). His goal is to
reverse engineer the emission control computer, optimizing it for
turbo control (Yup, he's one intelligent cookie, but smart? :-).

Pat Brown
Sebastopol, California Sun's out, maybe it ain't so bad here


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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:43:13 -0700
From: Pat Brown
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Clothespins on fuel lines

John wrote:
>> Another thing to do is replace the metal line with a rubber one
>> or putting a wooden clothes pin on the fuel line. Don't ask me
>> how this last one works but for sure it does.

I don't know, guys. I have red lights, buzzers, tilt alarms and BS
alerts going off all around me when I read this - maybe it only works
when it holds the magic fuel-atomizing magnet against the fuel line :-)
But, just for the fun of it, let's take a look here:

John added:
>> I don't think it's that simple. A heat sink only works when the
>> heat is being produced internally and wants to get out.

Yup. It CAN'T be a heat sink. Wood just doesn't conduct heat away
from anything. Just take that nice wood toilet seat off, and replace
it with a nice steel one. Sit on that on a cool morning. Just make
sure your butt isn't wet, especially that toilet in your barn, Gary.

Now, wood IS an OK insulator, not good, but OK. But again, a half
inch section of wood on a 2-3 foot long steel line? Another experiment:
Take a piece of steel fuel line, put a clothspin on it. Hold one end
in one hand, and warm the other with a torch. Time how long before
you let go. Repeat the experiment, without the clothspin. Any
difference? (Do this only with adult supervision, kids :-)

>I agree, it's not about heat sinking but may be related. Perhaps
>it's the water saturation capacity wood naturally has and as the
>stored water evaporates it cools the wood which then absorbs more of
>the heat from the line which then...........don't know but sounds
>feaseable to me.

Hmmm. Evaporation. Works for cooling humans. But how much water can
a clothspin hold? Why would this work for more than a few minutes
on a 100 degree day? Or in Texas on a 90F/90RH day? Nope. Not buyin'
that one.

> I saw one once that must have had 20 - 30 clothes pins on it and the
> guy swore by it.

I'll buy that, but it would be a lot cleaner to use an
insulating wrap on the line. Wouldn't be as interesting to talk
about, though. Ever see under the hood of a 260Z? They looked
like the business end of a shuttle motor. Every fuel line was
2 inches in diameter after insulation, those puppies ran HOT.

> Another thing it does is damp vibration but I don't
> think vapor lock is typically associated with vibration???

OK, I think we might be getting somewhere. I'm no chemist, but
I'll play one here. Something about a super-heated liquid won't
actually boil (form vapor) until it is somehow disturbed? Help Me!

Later, Gary added:
> I always pointed mine north but that was kind of inconvenient when
> you turned a corner, you had to get out and change.............:-)

SEE! I KNEW IT! Gary, you didn't install it with the magic magnet!
If you install it just right, the magnet will re-align to north
everytime!

Pat Brown
Sebastopol, California Never saw a wooden heat sink on a chip before


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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:58:21 -0700
From: Pat Brown
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Sonoma County Gas

Steve asked:

> Say, someone either on this list or maybe fordnatics said that there
> was a gas station in sonoma county that sold gas without MTBE in it.

Not me. However, before MTBE was required year-round state-wide, the
boundry line (Bay Area Air Quality Control District) was around Windsor.
The 'District' required oxygenated fuel to be sold within its boundries
during the winter months. So, you could be real gas up there, I got the
crap. SoCo airport has non-MTBE fuel. I don't think they'll let you
pump it into your truck, however. At least without a large 'tax'. Or,
you could go to Reno. Bring chains :-(

> Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

Cool virtual motor. Can AutoCad do a 3D version? Sort of like a
modern Visible V-8? You need clothspins, too :-):-):-)

Pat Brown
Sebastopol, California

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Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:00:21 EDT
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Manifolds for 460

i notched the frame on my 78 f150 4x4 when i put the 429 pi in it,this was
done about 12 years ago,this truck gets used and abused,stump
jumpin,muddin,sled pullin,and daily transportation and ihave not had any
problem with the notch,in fact
i was looking at it today.i was showing a friend what had to be done to
install a 460
in his 78 f250 extended cab swb.

jeff grant
griffin,ga.
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 01:28:59 -0400
From: Serian
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Havin a look at some trucks !

Hey all ... just got hold of this info, and figured I'd share it with
anyone who might be interested.

The "1st Towanda Truck Show" is being held June 20, 1998 at Riverfront Park.
Admission is $2, and if you have a truck you want to show, registration is
$10.
Young ones 12 and under get in free.

... certainly would be a good opportunity to have a look at the good old
Fords and
chat with their owners in northeastern PA ...



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