61-79-list-digest Saturday, May 30 1998 Volume 02 : Number 321



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Re: Rancheros
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Rancheros
FTE 61-79 - manifold vs. ported, was FE timing
FTE 61-79 - 460 in a 4x4
Re: FTE 61-79 - SunPro tach question
Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI on a '73 302
FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock 600 Vacuum
Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI on a '73 302
Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI
Re: FTE 61-79 - SunPro tach question
FTE 61-79 - Brake light update
Re: FTE 61-79 - Carbs
Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI
FTE 61-79 - Re: Ranchero List
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Rancheros
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE timing question
FTE 61-79 - H*lp! Need 1963 front Disks??
Re: FTE 61-79 - headers for f150 4x4 with 429
FTE 61-79 - steering wheel
> FTE 61-79 - Re: EFI on a '73 302
FTE 61-79 - Re: Clothespins on fuel lines
FTE 61-79 - Re: Sonoma County Gas
Re: FTE 61-79 - Manifolds for 460
FTE 61-79 - Havin a look at some trucks !
FTE 61-79 - looking for a 77-79 extended cab 4x4

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Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 07:56:44 +1000
From: james stuart watson
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Rancheros

Just a note from a new member, i own a 77 Ranchero with a 400ci
donk,auto, etc.
Where is the Ranchero list? I need some info urgently on them.
many thanks
- -Head


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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:10:39 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Rancheros

donk?

- ----------
> From: james stuart watson
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Rancheros
> Date: Friday, May 29, 1998 2:56 PM
>
> Just a note from a new member, i own a 77 Ranchero with a 400ci
> donk,auto, etc.
> Where is the Ranchero list? I need some info urgently on them.
> many thanks
> -Head
>
>

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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:21:26 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - manifold vs. ported, was FE timing

>> would prevent this from working out would be if you cannot then
>> lower your idle speed enough to keep the engine from running-on
>> after the key is turned off
>
>Then you get an electrical or vacuum dashpot to hold the idle speed
>which collapses when the engine stops or the key is shut off, closing
>the throttle plate completely which prevents the run on problem AFAIK
>
No, that wouldn't work because if the throttle plates can be closed more
then you have not backed off of the adjustment screw as much as possible.
I am saying you already have the plates as closed as they are going to get
and still you get run on or maybe it doesn't run on but your idle speed is
too high (some throttle plates have holes in them, some carbs have an idle
bypass, whatever).
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:24:32 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460 in a 4x4

>The 460 was NOT available in a 4x4 until the early 1980's (maybe 1983??) It
>was available in 2wd however. The conversion kits (like L&L, Hooker, etc)
>have just made it easier to do the swap...Thats all. Call and ask L&L...they
>will tell you the same. Ask a FORD dealership for engine mounts for a
factory
>460 4x4 in 1979.....they will say "Never made them!!!!". Hope I don't make
>anybody made....but the truth is the truth!!! Wayne Grabley
>
Wayne, who said they were? The guys original post said the 460 was not
available in an F150, he didn't specify 4x2 or 4x4. Did I miss a digest here?
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:24:12 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - SunPro tach question

>From: "David Butts"
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - SunPro tach question
>
>It is the ground. I had the same problem with a small tach.
>It is grounding through the dash lights normally, and when
>you turn on the lights, the ground goes away, and the thing
>stops working.

Hmmm... this doesn't sound right. When the switch is off, the power lead
for panel lights has no power and it certainly is not grounded. If any
alternative ground exists, it might be the tach signal line since it taps
into the negative side of the coil primary circuit, which eventually leads
back to ground. I will get out the VOM and test light this weekend to
figure this out, but I'll probably check the bulb first.

Another symptom: While I was out at lunch, I tried turning on the lights
and then turning the panel light dimmer all the way down, and lo and
behold, the tach comes back to life w/ the panel lights completely dimmed
(i.e., no power coming in on the light circuit). By turning the dimmer, I
could make the needle move.

If it's not the bulb (simplest answers first!), then I will be checking
over the rest of the external wiring and inspecting the inside of the case
for loose thingies.

Those flux capacitors are mighty expensive, and my Mr. Fusion has been on
the fritz ever since that last jump to hypertext. Any more ideas?

Dave R. (M-block devotee)


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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:27:50 -0400
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI on a '73 302

Deacon wrote:
>

> I just finished helping a friend install a Cobra upper and GT-40
> lower intake on his '94 Mustang. He gave me his stock upper and lower
> manifold and also a 60mm throttle body. I have hopes of one day putting
> this on my '73 F100 302. With all the parts I need to collect, the
> project is a ways down the road. I will try and pick up most of the
> parts at the junkyard. I understand the same intake is use on Tbirds so
> it should make things easier to find. Did Effies running EFI 5.0s use
> the same intakes?

What years? 86 through 88 T-birds used the non-HO 5.0. 86, 5.0 HO's had
smaller manifold/throttle body than 87+. I believe, when 87+mustangs
went to truck heads and better intake, T-bird stayed the same as 86. 94+
stangs had manifold with curved extension before throttle body to clear
new body style. I didn't think 89+ T-birds had this extension. 93+ cobra
mustangs used the setup you installed in your freinds. It's interesting
that you say someone picked up a cobra setup from an explorer, but I
guess they get wrecked also!!

>Aside from the O2 sensors in the exhaust it looked to
> me that the other sensors are located in the air cleaner, mass air unit
> (I think that's what it's called) and the throttle body. The fuel rails,
> injectors, wiring harness, electric fuel pump, fuel presure regulator
> and EEC are also needed to do this. I think I may also need to change my
> ignition system.

Just a note, here. without any of the emission equipment, your computer
will be running with several codes permanently stored in it. I have run
with EGR and air pump disconnected for a good while with no ill affects.
I have heard that timing needs to be redone if you ditch EGR. Not sure
if you can reset base timing and have that be OK. Like I said, I
disconnected EGR vac line for several years and everything seemed OK.

Do yourself a flavor and get the later ign setup with TFI module
mounted on fender. TFI modules go often due to heat of distributor.

>Does the EEC interact with the TFI ignition module?

Yes, controls everything except base timing (before computer timing
added) and dwell. Dwell is inherent in TFI module. Base timing is set by
pulling connector, just like disconnecting vac advance.

>If
> I used an MSD ignition module in place of the TFI module could I still
> use my existing distributor and coil

I'm not sure how happy EEC would be If it was not getting SPOUT (spark
out signal). It may assume ign is dead and go into some sort of limp
home mode.

>. If I need to use a new distributor
> > how can I tell the difference between a roller blocks and non-roller
> blocks.

All the late model blocks were not roller, only HO motors. I have no
idea how to tell. A non HO 5.0 has the intake opposite the HO motors. HO
motors had intake toward passenger side.

> I would like to hear what people think of doing this. Not just the
> tech gurus but anyone. Once the parts are collected it's not that much
> work putting it together or mounting the control modules.

May want to get aftermarket harness to simplify install. Also may want
to do this to avoid having bad connection or bad ground in old harness.
Nothing worse than a bad connection gremlin in an EFI harness,
especially grounds. May be worth the added expense of harness. Probably
much easier to install with aftermarket harness as wires will prob be
longer.

>Theoretically
> it should increase bottom end

Midrange torque should skyrocket from long runner intake.

>and get better mileage.

Maybe, but the newer, heavier trucks don't seem to do that much better
than carbs, milage wise (Gary's gonna eat up that statement :-)). I
guess once you get to a certain weight, with a relativley small motor,
you have to gas it quite a bit and EFI doesn't seem to help as much.

> Most of all look berry berry cool!

No doubt!!

>No matter what kind of point you would like to make,
> I'd like to hear it. If you have tech info both +\- I want to hear it
> most of all. TIA
> Later!

Obviously, you will need to go mass air. Even in doing that, you may
need a custom chip piggybacked onto the ECU. There are several really
good tuners around the country that will burn you chips until you are
happy. As for all the parts for 150$. I just paid 100$ for and upper/
lower from 87+. I have an 86 and want to upgrade. 150$ seems a little
low for all that is needed.

OX
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:32:12 EDT
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock 600 Vacuum

Ohio Bill,

I checked out my carb tonight, and it looks like my vacuum advance is hooked
to the driver's side....like I said, my 390 pulls clean all through the
range....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:45:01 -0400
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI on a '73 302

Donald R. Haulsee wrote:


Mustang guys don't like the 94 up EEC because it pulls
> timing on shifts in order to limit transmission breakage. Ford calls this
> injection SEFI because the injectors are fired individually in sequence.

What the mustang guys don't like is OBDII. This uses the EEC-V vs
EEC-IV. I'm pretty sure 96 was the first year for EEC-V, as it was the
first year for the 4.6. As for SEFI, that has been used since 86, the
first year for muliport fuel injection on cars. Some 85 trucks had
mulitport EFI, but all trucks had bank fire injection.


> 1. What camshaft is in your 302? If the cam is no hotter than a stock GT HO
> cam then you could use SPEED DENSITY (86-88) injection. It's much cheaper
> and is easier to wire.

I wouldn't recommend it, speed density is hit or miss with some
running blowers with it and being fine , while others doing minimal mods
and having all sorts of problems.

OX
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:54:45 -0400
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI

am14 chrysler.com wrote:
>
> Steve D. writes: >> I think EFI has a lot of good things going for it.
> I've been toying with the idea of grabbing all the EFI stuff off of a late
> 460 truck and adapting it to my FE390... Mostly cuz it would really freak
> people out when the hoods open, but also because I'd like to have more
> "hands-on" experiance with EFI. A little better mileage would be cool
> to...
>

460 never came with mass air, Speed density from 460 on 390 would be,
...interesting!!!

> I like the way EFI starts and idles when its cool/cold, and have been
> thinking of making the conversion on one of my old 460's to late model EFI
> (sometime in the future - not now). I'd like to know when the 1st year the
> 460 was offered with individual port fuel injection (not TBI)??? Anyone
> know??

Never. I think they wer all TBI

> I might also want to get the auto tranny from the same donor for
> installiation in my future motor home!!! The EFI and automatic would suit
> SHMBO just fine I think.

Later years had EEC controlling E4OD also.


OX
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:47:25 -0400
From: "John Miller"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - SunPro tach question

taken from two listers I think

> >It is grounding through the dash lights normally, and when
> >you turn on the lights, the ground goes away, and the thing
> >stops working.



> Hmmm... this doesn't sound right. When the switch is off, the power
lead
> for panel lights has no power and it certainly is not grounded.



> Another symptom: While I was out at lunch, I tried turning on the lights
> and then turning the panel light dimmer all the way down, and lo and
> behold, the tach comes back to life w/ the panel lights completely dimmed
> (i.e., no power coming in on the light circuit). By turning the dimmer,
I
> could make the needle move

You have a circuit that is using the lamp power side as a ground... yes I
said ground.. No it is not a "ground" but there is what is called
"potential difference" meaning it is less positive than the tach circuit,
that is until you apply power to that light circuit, same as when you use
the dimmer you take away and add to the "potential difference". Check all
wiring to the Tach for correct routing etc. I think you will find your
problem straight away. You may even find inside the tack there has been
some miswiring done at some point. your troubleshooting is fine, keep at
it.


John Miller, FoMoCoNUT Gibralter.net
96 F-350 Reg Cab XLT, 4x4, 460 w/ A4OD, My Baby "Baloo"
75 F-100 Reg Cab Ranger, 2wd, 360, C6, Daily Driver "Lucy"
and "always" looking ! ! !
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:53:05 -0400
From: Garry Bowling
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Brake light update

Pat and Gary stated you could try to adjust brakes or realign the pin in
the portioning valve. I have a spare off of a 69. Can it be cleaned
and used. I would just as soon remove the one on my truck now and
replace it. I also assume once this is done I must bleed all four
wheels again.
How does the valve work in relation to the brake light. I tried
cleaning the contact but it didnot do any good. I really would like to
get it working. It is just one of nagging things that needs to get
fixed.
Garry
67 longbed

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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:49:15 -0400
From: "John Miller"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Carbs

Well gang I have this to say right now, more to follow. I have just came
home to 385 emails to catch up with but I want to comment just a little on
this thread first even before I officially respond with what my research
has discovered.
Maybe I am seeing this wrong but I want everyone to know, especially
Garr ford.com.whatever that I only stated "my" creed or likes as to what I
put on my Fords.. If you have ever heard the phrase; "Freedom never has
quite the taste as it does to those who defend it" please think about it. I....

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