61-79-list-digest Friday, May 29 1998 Volume 02 : Number 319



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

RE: FTE 61-79 - Oil problem
RE: FTE 61-79 - Cold miss
Re: FTE 61-79 - virtual motors
Re: FTE 61-79 - SWMBO
Re: FTE 61-79 - headers for f150 4x4 with 429
FTE 61-79 - system crash, lost email
RE: FTE 61-79 - Cold miss
Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 in 85 bronco
Re: FTE 61-79 - 460 replacing an FE
RE: FTE 61-79 - 390 in 85 bronco
FTE 61-79 - vapor lock definition
RE: FTE 61-79 - Cold miss
FTE 61-79 - headers for f150 4x4 with 429
Re: FTE 61-79 - vapor lock definition
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Clarification
Re: FTE 61-79 - 70 F100 S/B 2wd
FTE 61-79 - Manifolds for 460
FTE 61-79 - 460 offering
RE:FTE 61-79 - EFI on a '73 302
FTE 61-79 - FE timing question
Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI on a '73 302
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE timing question
Re: FTE 61-79 - virtual motors
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE timing question
FTE 61-79 - RE SWMBO
FTE 61-79 - RE Guage Help

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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 05:02:49 -0500
From: "Bear"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Oil problem

Ok then I will not worry about it. I was just making sure...
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Gary, 78 BBB
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 1998 10:38 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Oil problem


> From: "Bear"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Oil problem
> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 03:08:08 -0500

> I have a 1978 F-150 with a 351 M and a C6 transmission. When I
> first start the motor I can here a ticking noise for about three
> seconds. It sounds like a low oil tick. I was wondering if that is

Sounds like the lifters to me. Only 3 seconds? I can only dream :-)
If you have good oil pressure at idle after warm up and no other
noises I'd say you're in pretty good shape :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 05:04:10 -0500
From: "Bear"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Cold miss

Ok I will set up an appointment! thanks!

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Gary, 78 BBB
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 1998 10:41 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Cold miss


> From: "Bear"
> To: "FTE"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Cold miss
> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 02:56:52 -0500
> Reply-to: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com

> I have a 1978 F-150 with a 351 M. It seems that I have a miss when
> the motor is cold but when it is warm it is fine. The temp here is

You need to get someone to help you tune the carb and get all the
parts working right including the choke, idle mixture, accellerator
pump and gaskets etc.. You could have some valve lash problems but
that's highly unlikely.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --

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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:16:43 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - virtual motors

> From: sdelanty sonic.net
> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 15:54:07 -0700
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - virtual motors

> pretty cool, I'll bet I can use it to help design all kinds of
> weird new junk for my F100. (-:

WHOA THERE STEVE! First you have to add the cam and the valves. We
won't be happy till we see what kind of valve clearances you can come
up with...........:-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:22:52 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - SWMBO

> From: "Bear"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - SWMBO
> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 04:09:15 -0500

> Can someone enlighten me on what "SWMBO" means?
> Thanks

It means "she who smiled all the way to the cave while being drug by
here conquering hero as she was dreaming up all manner of honey do
list items to lay on the poor B*****d who thinks he's in control
just because he's the one with the club"

She Who Must Be Obeyed :-)

Only twice married and once separated, hen pecked guys can really
relate to this I'm sure :-)


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:45:12 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - headers for f150 4x4 with 429

> From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:32:15 EDT
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - headers for f150 4x4 with 429

> i have a 78 ford f150 with a 429 pi,can anyone recommend an in
> expensive set of headers for this combo,the 29 or 60 was not offered
> in a f150,i have been told hooker makes a set,but they're 350.00
> plus,i'm looking for a set of 150- 200.00 headers.

I think my Walkers were about $120 but are just ordinary thin steel
and not especially good but they fit and they keep the exhaust gas
where it belongs. I wrapped mine with fiberglass wrap to protect the
starter and make them more efficient (theoretically). They fit very
tight to the engine but it's still very close to the steering box and
starter and just barely clears the passenger side frame rail so a
little bending may be needed to get it "just right" :-)

BTW, mine is 2wd, 4wd has some special considerations but as I recall
my headers were made for 4wd and still worked fine. I did have to
trim my home made engine stanchions to clear the bottom though so not
sure how they will fit with stock stanchions and L&L mounts etc..

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:57:06 -0400
From: pickup65 juno.com (Jon E Purut)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - system crash, lost email

I downloaded my email yesterday and my system crashed at the same time.
Two emails were lost. Could someone send me digest #315. Also I saw a
private email coming in just before the crash from someone named John.
Could you resend?

Jon E. Purut
Pickup65 juno.com
JCPurut worldnet.att.net
Visit my site http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~JCPurut

1964 F500
1965 F100 SWB Daily Driver
1965 F100
1977 F150
1970 Mustang Fastback



_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:00:33 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Cold miss

> From: "Bear"
> Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Cold miss
> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 05:04:10 -0500

> Ok I will set up an appointment! thanks!
>
> You need to get someone to help you tune the carb and get all the

Didn't mean to imply you couldn't do it yourself, it just sounded
like you weren't very familiar with carb tuning so a friend who is
would be a plus for sure. You can learn this from a book too and if
you have the ford service manual for your truck all the info is in
there and fairly easy to figure out. Don't waste money on the
chiltons or haynes manuals for this, get a carb specific book or
service manual set. If you plan to keep the truck for some time I
highly recommend the Helms service manual set. There is no manual
out there that can compete with it for pure accruate info. (not that
it's perfect) :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:23:27 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 in 85 bronco

> From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:27:58 EDT
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 in 85 bronco

> i always like to go hog wild with a die grinder and a rotary
> file,deburing and polishing the crank,the rods,the lifter valley,the

This also eliminates many stress concentration areas and prevents
potential cracking as well :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:21:18 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 460 replacing an FE

> From: "Melayne Arnold"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460 replacing an FE
> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:00:17 -0400

> the junk yards for a 460 "truck" manifold (they come straight
> down from the exhaust and hug the block more), these are fairly common but they do
> seem to be getting harder to find,

Excuse me if I'm wrong but the problem is the car manifold goes
straight down and gets pinched between the starter and frame which is
why it has to be notched, whereas the truck manifold exits the rear
at about a 30 degree angle which is just right to clear the starter
and exit over the bell housing etc..

Hard to find or impossible? New ones are $193, headers are $100 on
up so SWMBO can be placated by the cost comparison if you really
would rather have headers :-) (that's how I got away with it but
didn't tell her the custom exhaust was another $200 :-))

BTW, she just shrugs her shoulders and goes out and spends exactly
the same amount I do on something she wants and we go hungry for the
next week or two.......:-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:53:42 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 390 in 85 bronco

getting rid of all of the casting flash is definatly worth it on a street
engine. not polishing everything, but remove the casting flash and it is
prevented from removing itself someday and falling somewhere it shouldn't
be.

sleddog

- ----------
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com[SMTP:JJJJJGRANT aol.com]
Sent: Friday, May 29, 1998 12:27 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 in 85 bronco


i always like to go hog wild with a die grinder and a rotary
file,deburing and polishing the crank,the rods,the lifter valley,the top of
the heads,any thing to make the oil flow back to the pan faster.its not
really
worth the efforts on a pure street engine,but it doesn't hurt either.




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:03:33 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - vapor lock definition

>>Another thing to do is replace the metal line with a
>>rubber one or putting a wooden clothes pin on the fuel line. Don't ask
>>me how this last one works but for sure it does.
>
>Is it acting as a heat sink, maybe, like the big metal monster
>on Pentium processors?
>
I don't think it's that simple. A heat sink only works when the heat is
being produced internally and wants to get out. The problem with the metal
fuel line is that the heat is coming from an external source. A heat
sink, by it's definition, would make the problem WORSE by providing more
area for the heat to be absorbed. It has something to do with it being
wood because plastic ones don't work.
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:08:03 -0500
From: "Bear"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Cold miss

I didn't take offense to that statement you are right I am not familiar with
it and I think if I tried I would have it more messed up than it is. :o) I
tried to do it myself on a 351 W that I had but some things are just easier
to pay to have done.
Where do I get a Helms service manual set and how much do they cost?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Gary, 78 BBB
Sent: Friday, May 29, 1998 3:01 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Cold miss


> From: "Bear"
> Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Cold miss
> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 05:04:10 -0500

> Ok I will set up an appointment! thanks!
>
> You need to get someone to help you tune the carb and get all the

Didn't mean to imply you couldn't do it yourself, it just sounded
like you weren't very familiar with carb tuning so a friend who is
would be a plus for sure. You can learn this from a book too and if
you have the ford service manual for your truck all the info is in
there and fairly easy to figure out. Don't waste money on the
chiltons or haynes manuals for this, get a carb specific book or
service manual set. If you plan to keep the truck for some time I
highly recommend the Helms service manual set. There is no manual
out there that can compete with it for pure accruate info. (not that
it's perfect) :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --

= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:16:46 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - headers for f150 4x4 with 429

>i have a 78 ford f150 with a 429 pi,can anyone recommend an in expensive set
>of headers for this combo,the 29 or 60 was not offered in a f150,i have been
>told hooker makes a set,but they're 350.00 plus,i'm looking for a set of
150- >200.00 headers.
>
While I can't direct you to an inexpensive set of headers, I can tell you
that the 460 WAS available in the F150 thru 1979. I had a good friend in
high school who's Dad bought a brand new '79 F150 XLT Lariat at Bullock
Ford in Corrigan, Texas, which was factory equipped with the 460. Came
right off the lot. But even if it wasn't, headers for an F250/460 would
work just fine.
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:18:46 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - vapor lock definition

> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:03:33 -0500
> From: John Strauss
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - vapor lock definition

> I don't think it's that simple. A heat sink only works when the
> heat is being produced internally and wants to get out. The problem
> with the metal fuel line is that the heat is coming from an
> external source. A heat sink, by it's definition, would make the
> problem WORSE by providing more area for the heat to be absorbed.
> It has something to do with it being wood because plastic ones don't
> work.

I agree, it's not about heat sinking but may be related. Perhaps
it's the water saturation capacity wood naturally has and as the
stored water evaporates it cools the wood which then absorbs more of
the heat from the line which then...........don't know but sounds
feaseable to me. Another thing it does is damp vibration but I don't
think vapor lock is typically associated with vibration???

I saw one once that must have had 20 - 30 clothes pins on it and the
guy swore by it. Seems to me there are more elegant ways to
eliminate this problem (and more reliable, scientiifc, etc..)

I'm running hard lines (no rubber at all) from the pump to the carb,
very close to the block and intake and have had no problems with
vapor lock but do have some pretty serious percolation with the 400.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:26:48 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Clarification

Just a clarification on yesterdays admin email:

Keep having fun, I hope everyone understood the tone of my post.
Its impossible to stay on topic 100% of the time, heck, sometimes
the diversions on Fordnatics are enjoyable. The point of my
post is that if we can't keep ourselves from going hog wild,
like sharks on a surfer, I'll see out a warning.

Also, what's with this "I agree" stuff????? Just remember, 600+
people get to see that you agree.

On a lighter note, the Pigeon Forge F100 Supernationals photos
came back from the developer and I scanned in about 30 last night,
will scan more tonight. Expect to see them on the web site this
weekend, our group photo turned out great except you can't read
the text on the banner (that's what Paintshop+ is for).

Mean Ol' List Dad,
Ken Payne



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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:33:00 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 70 F100 S/B 2wd

At 03:35 AM 5/29/98 -0400, you wrote:
>New to the list, thank you, thank you! Five years ago, I moved my
>sweetheart from the the warm and airy clime of Mississippi to the cruel
>harsh SALTY winters of Michigan. Even though I only drove her 1 winter in
>these conditions, everytime I look at her underbelly I want to cry. Is
>there an economical, earth friendly, non-lethal method that anyone has used
>that will rid my sweetheart of underbody corrosion??

Use Naval jelly, just be careful, the acid in it will also remove paint.
Its biodegradable, so it shouldn't be a problem, just rinse with alot
of water because the acid, in concentrate form with kill plants. It will
turn the rust into a black layer and should slow the rust down.

>Also, are the harmonic dampeners on 289 and early 302 engines the same?
>Are the pulley dimensions the same? I transplanted a 289 engine into the
>vehicle from a 69 Galaxie 500. This was rebuilt with a short block 302 and
>now I have an engine vibration that goes away at about 40 mph. The engine
>is attached to a Ford 3-spd transmission.

Don't know.

>One last thing I'd like to find out about is whether I can transplant disc
>brakes to this truck from another vehicle.

Check out the guide on the web site in the technical articles. It tells
you everything you want to know about. I've did two conversions and got
tired of explaining it (its one of the most common questions that can't
be answered without a lot of type!) and decided to write the guide. While
you're there, check out the other great articles other list members have
provided.

Ken Payne


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:36:56 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Manifolds for 460

Stoney Writes: >>If you want to use standard manifolds that's fine. If the
engine came out of a car the driver's side manifold will fit, but, the
passenger side will overlap the frame about an inch and a half. Some
people just notch their frame enough to bolt the exhaust on, but I'm a
chicken I guess, this is way to close to the motor mount and the torque the
frame must withstand to be cutting on IMHO. You have a couple of options,
hunt the junk yards for a 460 "truck" manifold (they come straight down
from the exhaust and hug the block more), these are fairly common but
they do seem to be getting harder to find,

Completely forgot this in my post, but its true. Also some of the earlier
('68 thru '70 I believe) pass side manifolds for the cars are better than
the later models, but I am told that the Van pass side manifold is the
best. I haven't tried this, (so you can see I notch the frames, but I also
weld in some thick plate to compensate for the loss in strength), but it is
fairly commonly accepted as being so.

Good luck. I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the amount of
torque and power these engines generate in pure stock form.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:43:34 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460 offering

Jeff grant writes: >>the 29 or 60 was not offered in a f150,

Jeff I think the 460 was a factory option from '77 thru '79 in 2X4 only.
Not in 4X4. Might have been '78/'79 only, but I'm sure I've seen them in
'79's.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Fri, 29 May 98 9:51:28 -0400
From: "Donald R. Haulsee"
Subject: RE:FTE 61-79 - EFI on a '73 302

Deacon Wrote >>>>

I just finished helping a friend install a Cobra upper and GT-40
lower intake on his '94 Mustang. He gave me his stock upper and lower
manifold and also a 60mm throttle body. I have hopes of one day putting
this on my '73 F100 302. Did Effies running EFI 5.0s use
the same intakes? Aside from the O2 sensors in the exhaust it looked to
me that the other sensors are located in the air cleaner, mass air unit
(I think that's what it's called) and the throttle body. The fuel rails,
injectors, wiring harness, electric fuel pump, fuel presure regulator
and EEC are also needed to do this. I think I may also need to change my
ignition system. Does the EEC interact with the TFI ignition module? If
I used an MSD ignition module in place of the TFI module could I still
use my existing distributor and coil. If I need to use a new distributor
how can I tell the difference between a roller blocks and non-roller
blocks.

I've converted an 85 Mustang GT to SEFI and have owned several late model
SEFI cars so I can answer some of your questions. I'm also going to have to
ask a few. I don't recommend using 94 up injection because it is much more
integrated in the car. Mustang guys don't like the 94 up EEC because it pulls
timing on shifts in order to limit transmission breakage. Ford calls this
injection SEFI because the injectors are fired individually in sequence. They
did make a version for the 302 used on about 88 or so trucks that is just EFI
where the injectors are fired in 2 banks.

1. What camshaft is in your 302? If the cam is no hotter than a stock GT HO
cam then you could use SPEED DENSITY (86-88) injection. It's much cheaper
and is easier to wire. If you have a lumpy idle cam then you must get Mass
Air injection (89-93)

2. What is your firing order? The Mustang HO engines use the 351 firing
order. The non HO engines used in Thunderbirds and Crown Vics use the 302
firing order.

3. HO engines use 19 lb/hr injectors and non HO use 14 lb/hr. The computers
are different based on firing order, injector size, and transmission
selection. However, in practise, any computer can be used with any trans.
The idle may 'waver' slightly when they are mismatched and a code scanner
will pick up a code telling you that the transmission neutral sensors are not
working. Computers can NOT be mismatched to firing order and injector size.
If mismatched, then the engine will start, but won't run well at all. (ask me
how I know this one)

4. The distributor used with SEFI has no mechanical or vacuum advance. The
computer controls all advance. It must be a TFI unit or an equivalent
aftermarket unit designed for use with an EEC computer. 83-86 Thunderbirds
and Crown Vics with CFI injection have TFI distributors that are made for use
with flat tappet cams. All SEFI engines beginning in 87 appear to be roller
cam engines. I won't swear to that last statement however,

5. All sensors except for mass air, O2, and manifold air pressure are located
in the intake and throttle body. There are several solenoids that need to be
placed on the right hand fender well. They are TAB (Thermactor Air Bypass),
TAD (Thermactor Air Diverter), and EGR valve positioner solenoid. TAB and TAD
don't need to be hooked up, but, the EGR solenoid MUST be hooked up or the
engine will not run right.

6. The computer wiring harness is basically a stand alone harness. In the
case of a Thunderbird or Mustang, it has three connectors that tie back to the
main vehicle harness. One connector controls the fuel pump and the other two
provide connections to oil gage, temp gage, tach, AC compressor control(the
computer turns off the compressor at WOT), neutral safety switch, VSS sensor
(cruise control), and ignition and start connections. I have the pinouts for
the Mustang and Tbird harness'.

7. The fuel system has some unique challenges. A truck probably won't be as
bad since they have the vertical tank in the cab. Under cornering or
acceleration at less than 1/4 tank, an inline electric fuel pump can't pull
fuel out of a flat tank. SEFI cars have a baffled gas tank and eventually put
the high pressure (38 psi) fuel pump in the tank. Early cars used a low
pressure in tank electric pump feeding an inline high pressure pump. My
attempts to use a non SEFI gas tank on my 85 conversion failed. I had to buy
an 87+ Mustang tank out of a junkyard ($45).

I will begin this weekend installing an 88 Speed Density Mustang HO 302 with
AOD in my 66 F100. If you have questions, you can reach me at my home email
of capri5oh Aol.com

Don Haulsee
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:56:41 EDT
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE timing question

Hey Ohio Bill,

I went through the same thing with my Edelbrock carb. I'll look and see which
I connected it to tonight and respond tomorrow....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:04:03 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - EFI on a '73 302

> I just finished helping a friend install a Cobra upper and GT-40
>lower intake on his '94 Mustang. He gave me his stock upper and lower
>manifold and also a 60mm throttle body. I have hopes of one day putting
>this on my '73 F100 302. With all the parts I need to collect, the
>project is a ways down the road. I will try and pick up most of the
>parts at the junkyard. I understand the same intake is use on Tbirds so
>it should make things easier to find. Did Effies running EFI 5.0s use
>the same intakes?

I *think* the trucks use a slightly different intake, but they are
interchangeable. Different runner length in the upper half maybe?
The Fordnatics list will know ...

>Aside from the O2 sensors in the exhaust it looked to
>me that the other sensors are located in the air cleaner, mass air unit
>(I think that's what it's called) and the throttle body. The fuel rails,
>injectors, wiring harness, electric fuel pump, fuel presure regulator
>and EEC are also needed to do this.

Coolant temp sender... uh, can't think of any others, must be more...(-:

>I think I may also need to change my
>ignition system. Does the EEC interact with the TFI ignition module?

Yes, I believe so.

>If
>I used an MSD ignition module in place of the TFI module could I still
>use my existing distributor and coil.

I think so.

>If I need to use a new distributor
>how can I tell the difference between a roller blocks and non-roller
>blocks.

A rolling block gathers no moss.

> I would like to hear what people think of doing this. Not just the
>tech gurus but anyone.

I think EFI has a lot of good things going for it. I've been toying
with the idea of grabbing all the EFI stuff off of a late 460 truck and
adapting it to my FE390... Mostly cuz it would really freak people out
when the hoods open, but also because I'd like to have more "hands-on"
experiance with EFI. A little better mileage would be cool to...

If all them wires don't scare You too much, I'd say go for it.
You can get *tons* of info about EFI on the "DIY-EFI" list if You
can wade thru all the serious techno-geek stuff about writing
software and stuff. There's some serious good EFI info on that list.
And lots of the Fordnatics will have answers to Your EFI questions also.
I think You should gather parts and put it on.


Steve
Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

Opportunity may knock only once, but temptation
leans on the doorbell.

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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:04:01 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE timing question

At 10:50 PM 5/28/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Quick question (this is an easy one!).
>I just dropped an Edelbrock carb onto my
>68 360 FE. Which vacum fitting do I hook
>the distributor up to (it is a stock
>distributor)? Does the distributor need
>vacum at idle or not?
>Ohio Bill

Usually You don't want vacuum at idle.
Port on the left....

Steve
Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

Opportunity may knock only once, but temptation
leans on the doorbell.

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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:04:04 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - virtual motors

>> pretty cool, I'll bet I can use it to help design all kinds of
>> weird new junk for my F100. (-:
>
>WHOA THERE STEVE! First you have to add the cam and the valves. We
>won't be happy till we see what kind of valve clearances you can come
>up with...........:-)

I thought about adding cam and valves. I believe the correct valve
clearance on virtual motors is 1 pixel...
For an FE427 it would be .028" (cold)

Steve

Steve
Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

Opportunity may knock only once, but temptation
leans on the doorbell.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:49:55 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE timing question

> From: sdelanty sonic.net
> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:04:01 -0700
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE timing question

> >68 360 FE. Which vacum fitting do I hook
> >the distributor up to (it is a stock
> >distributor)? Does the distributor need
> >vacum at idle or not?
> >Ohio Bill
>
> Usually You don't want vacuum at idle.
> Port on the left....

Can someone splain this to me?? At idle you have the leanest mixture
the engine ever sees so it stands to reason that you also need the
greatest advance (without regard for time segments being longer). At
higher rpms you need more advance due to shorter time intervals
during firing strokes but you also have richer mixtures at WOT so
they kind of cancel each other to a degree but at cruise you again
have very lean mixture AND shorter time to burn the mixture so more
advance is needed, even more than at idle which is accomodated by the
mechanical advance.

The ported vacuum happened due to NOx AFAIK since lean mixtures bun
hotter and produce more of this?? I've always used manifold vac and
have had good performance this way so if you don't care about
emissions what's the best and why??

You can keep leaning out the carb and advancing the ignition till you
have a rediculous amount of initial advance but as soon as you step
on the gas all H*** breake loose in the form of spark knock for all
the reasons I mentioned above but at this setting I suspect you are
also producing a serious amount of NOx??

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:16:47 -0700
From: "Hogan, Tom"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE SWMBO

She Who Must Be Obeyed. IE the wife/girlfriend/significant other who has a
substantial say in how the $'s are spent!

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 04:09:15 -0500
From: "Bear"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - SWMBO

Can someone enlighten me on what "SWMBO" means?
Thanks

E-mail
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:31:06 -0700
From: "Hogan, Tom"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE Guage Help

Tony,
I've had similar problems with my guages. I can't give you specific
numbers but here is a method that should work. The guages are supplied
with a regulated voltage from a common source. They are grounded
through the sensors that vary the resistance with changes in the sensed
property (pressure, temp, level).

1. Connect to the sending unit with an ohm meter and measure the
resistance between the terminal on the sender and a ground point. I
like to use the oil pressure sender for this because its response is
immediate.
2. Note the resistance with the engine off.
3. Start the engine. If the resistance changes then the sensor is
probably good.

As I remember the resistance is high when the motor is off (0 psi
pressure) and drops as the pressure comes up. If you think about
current flow this makes sense. With a high resistance (low pressure)
the current flow would be low and the guage needle would not deflect
much. As resistance drops (pressure increases) current flow will
increase and the guage will move further up its range.

To check the wiring you could take the same measurement inside the cab.
Connect to the wire that goes to the sending unit and take the same
measurements.

It's unlikely however that all sending units failed at the same time.
It is more likely that the regulator that supplies voltage to the guages
has failed. The regulator is a thermal mechanical unit that works by
making and breaking the circuit to the guages. The easiest way to check
this is with a test light. Connect the light to the wire that attaches
....


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