61-79-list-digest Friday, May 22 1998 Volume 02 : Number 300



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - California get together
FTE 61-79 - 462
Re: FTE 61-79 - 462
Re: FTE 61-79 - 462
FTE 61-79 - RE: Heater Hose Routes
Re: FTE 61-79 - re:re: Carbs open plenum spacer
RE: FTE 61-79 - FW: Help - Need Wiring Diagram
FTE 61-79 - RE: Hello
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Heater Hose Routes
RE: FTE 61-79 - 462
RE: FTE 61-79 - re:re: Carbs open plenum spacer
FTE 61-79 - '68 360 heater hose routing
FTE 61-79 - home
FTE 61-79 - Proposed legislation
FTE 61-79 - getting sponsors
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re:carburators
FTE 61-79 - 410 Merc
Re: FTE 61-79 - Autolite carbs
FTE 61-79 - Spreadbore.
FTE 61-79 - Carb
Re: FTE 61-79 - home

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 01:59:38 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - California get together

From: John Miller
>Ha Ha Ha..... you know what happens when meetings take place and
someone
>isn't there, THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN.... you already got unanimously
>VOTED/appointed as the West Coast BIG KAHUNA..... Sorry Bro....
>hehehehehheheheh I guess you have to take that up with the Kenster....
:)

Nope, it just can be. In my 43 years I've learned, you don't put a
manic depressive in charge of fun Friday. It's just not a wise thing to
do. They can help, but if their in charge and things go wrong, there's a
good chance they'll be spotted in a high place with a high powered
weapon. So that makes me a helper! :)

Later! Or sooner, maybe after or before.


deconblu gte.net
=============================
Nuke the unborn baby whales.
=============================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/



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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 05:18:37 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 462

>I have a question. at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.blake.com/oemcarbs/ford.htm they say
>the '68 Lincoln with a 462 cu.in. engine has a carb TYPE/BBL C-4-AFB OEM
># C8VF-C, D, E . What is a 462? I've never seen one. Also is this a
>Carter AFB? I couldn't find the 4100 on anything lots of 4300s.

The 462 is a later derivative of the 430 Lincoln otherwise known as the
Mercury Turnpike Cruiser. The cylinder heads have flat decks with no
cumbustion chamber( Heron design, I think it's called) I remember a guy from
when I was but a tyke who shoehorned one into a '57 Ford Fairlane. Ruined
the front end, since the engine weighs about 800 lbs. I'm not sure but I
think it all started with the 317 which was Ford's real first OHV.
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:07:48 -0400
From: "Ron"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 462

I thought the 239 V8 was the first OHV engine?

Ron

- ----------
> From: William L Ballinger
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - 462
> Date: Friday, May 22, 1998 6:18 AM
>
> >I have a question. at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.blake.com/oemcarbs/ford.htm they say
> >the '68 Lincoln with a 462 cu.in. engine has a carb TYPE/BBL C-4-AFB OEM
> ># C8VF-C, D, E . What is a 462? I've never seen one. Also is this a
> >Carter AFB? I couldn't find the 4100 on anything lots of 4300s.
>
> The 462 is a later derivative of the 430 Lincoln otherwise known as the
> Mercury Turnpike Cruiser. The cylinder heads have flat decks with no
> cumbustion chamber( Heron design, I think it's called) I remember a guy
from
> when I was but a tyke who shoehorned one into a '57 Ford Fairlane. Ruined
> the front end, since the engine weighs about 800 lbs. I'm not sure but I
> think it all started with the 317 which was Ford's real first OHV.
> Come on over to my Back Porch
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
> Ballinger
> ballingr ldd.net
>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:14:50 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 462

> From: "Ron"
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 462
> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:07:48 -0400

> I thought the 239 V8 was the first OHV engine?

239 and 329 (as I recall) are flat heads one a ford the other a
lincoln and truck engine. First over head valve I know of was the
272, then 292 then 312. Sounds like the 430 and 462 were "Y" block
motors based on the 272 technology??

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 8:23:02 +0000
From: tfmf211 murphyfarms.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Heater Hose Routes

Well, I'm glad someone else has this configuration. I thought I was crazy.=
=20
The
heater hose goes into the carb adapter but there is no where for it to come=
=20
out.
I assume the water comes in through the adapter then down into the intake=20
and
then back to the water pump. A wet carb adapter? It makes sense the way=20
its
routed. It seems for force water from the back of the manifold to the fron=
t=20

(or visa-versa, I'm not sure which way the water runs in the manifold) and
when the heater control valve is completly shut, it bypasses all the water
through the manifold keeping it cool.

I'm intrested in hearing from others and the diagram from Stu will help out=
=20
as well.
(Thanks again, Stu!)

John, as far as a northern option, I don't know. This truck was bought at=20=
a=20
dealer
in Clinton, NC which is just a few miles from here. It was used as a farm
truck till the original owner gave it to his son. I have the original=20
warranty
card in the owners manual.

I don't know if they made it this way due to an options package. Say maybe
a towing package? I don't know. I wasn't concerned until I looked at thos=
e
cherried out trucks at the Forge and mine didn't look like theirs.
____________
Ted,
My 360 came from a 69 and was set up that way. I guess the carb adapter was=
=20
to
control the temp of the carb. My auto expert said I needed to have it that=20
way
so I
found an L fitting for the manifold in front of the carb and rerouted the
upper
heater hose to the back of the carb plate then put a short hose between the
front
of the carb plate to the L into the manifold. I don't know if this is right
but it
seems to work ok.
Tom
Learnin' in Reno,NV
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:52:52 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - re:re: Carbs open plenum spacer

>Stu: If you need a motor for you cobra kit car, I have a dual quad
>medium riser sideoiler just about ready to go. I should get the block
>back from the machine shop in a few weeks. Just need to paint it a bolt
>it together.

I beleive that's sleddog's kit car, I am just going to fabricate the frame
for him
while he builds my motor. :) I love haviung anal people work on my
engines!! Can't figure out how I can get the engine 800 miles away! :( Rats!
Stu
Nuke GM!

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:53:56 -0500
From: Mike Warren
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - FW: Help - Need Wiring Diagram

I will scan these and see about placing them on the Web, If that is OK?
This will really help me alot

Fax Number

214-672-6890

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kristen Marcellus [SMTP:MrsSlix66 email.msn.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 1998 9:36 PM
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FW: Help - Need Wiring Diagram
>
> Mike-
>
> Send me your fax # and I'll send you the diagrams I've got.
>
> Kristen (MrsSlix66 email.msn.com)
> 66 F100 - in the garage, the basement, the livingroom ... :)
>
>
>
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts
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> ======================================================================
> =
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 8:41:25 +0000
From: tfmf211 murphyfarms.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Hello

Ish,

How ya doin? I would look really hard at Stan's Headers. I put
Heddmans on mine. There okay. We were able to get them
in without having to raise the motor. Had to remove the starter
to get them in, then re-installed the starter before mounting them
on the heads. But other than that they were straight forward.
From what I understand about the Stan's Tri-Y's is that the
starter doesn't become an issue. Some one who has a set
can confirm this, but with the Heddmans you'll have to remove
the header to remove the starter. The left pipe on the Heddmans
don't run straight back either. I kicks towards the frame rail and
has to be compensated for in the new pipe.

Just my .02 cents on headers. As far as the other questions, others
on the list that are much, much, much more in the know than myself
can get you a better answer.

Later,

-Ted
________
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 18:18:47 PDT
From: "ismael caraballo"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Hello

Just bought a '71 F-100 with a 352, 2barrell carb, a/c.
The truck runs ok, but i'd like to improve low-end a little without
hurting mileage. can you suggest an intake manifold to replace the
cast-iron one? does Edelbrock make one?
Also, what do you recommend in the way of headers to replace the stock
exhaust?


thanks,
ish=20
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:01:17 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Heater Hose Routes

At 08:23 AM 5/22/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Well, I'm glad someone else has this configuration.

Envelope is in the mail with all AC and heater hose routing procedures
copied from Helm/Ford manual of 71 vintage. You will have to cut 2 new
holes for the AC/heater hose
set up.

>I'm intrested in hearing from others and the diagram from Stu will help out
>as well.
>(Thanks again, Stu!)

No poblem Big Boy!
Stu
Nuke GM!

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:14:47 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 462

there has been some info as of lately posted to the fordnatics list about that engine, the 462. perhaps it is archived.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 4:14 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 462

> From: "Ron"
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 462
> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:07:48 -0400

> I thought the 239 V8 was the first OHV engine?

239 and 329 (as I recall) are flat heads one a ford the other a
lincoln and truck engine. First over head valve I know of was the
272, then 292 then 312. Sounds like the 430 and 462 were "Y" block
motors based on the 272 technology??

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:21:50 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - re:re: Carbs open plenum spacer

anal, anal? ANAL???? why that's the nicest thing anyone has said bout me
lately!

as for the kit, that's a ways away still. too bad, a real 427side oiler
would be nice :)

well stu, looks like you need to come to PA for a while. or just start
mailing parts. really, i promise to do the job - just send the parts . .
.i got a PO box set up just for your engine parts. just send the parts. .
. .

sleddog

- ----------
From: Stu Varner[SMTP:varners ten-nash.ten.k12.tn.us]
Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 3:52 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - re:re: Carbs open plenum spacer


>Stu: If you need a motor for you cobra kit car, I have a dual quad
>medium riser sideoiler just about ready to go. I should get the block
>back from the machine shop in a few weeks. Just need to paint it a bolt
>it together.

I beleive that's sleddog's kit car, I am just going to fabricate the frame
for him
while he builds my motor. :) I love haviung anal people work on my
engines!! Can't figure out how I can get the engine 800 miles away! :(
Rats!
Stu
Nuke GM!

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:21:07 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - '68 360 heater hose routing

>I have a '68 with a 360 and am in the
>process of putting A/C on it. (Thanks,
>Stu). The current heater hoses on it
>has a unique set up on it. I had hoped
>that I would see one like mine at the
>Forge but no luck. On one side the
>heater core is the heater control valve
>and terminates on the front of the manifold.
>On the other side of the heater core there is
>a "T" fitting. The "T" is between the radiator,
>heater core and the off shoot connects to the
>carb. adapter. Strange! I don't think it's right,
>especially since none of the '68's I looked at
>at the Forge had this configuration. If anyone
>can shed some light I'd appreciate it.
>
Ted,
I checked my '68 and it is just like you say. The hose from the water
pump to the heater core has a Tee in it and it goes over to the back of the
carb spacer. Then it comes out of the carb spacer and joins another Tee on
the manifold where the other heater hose, the one with the heater valve in
it, enters the manifold. The manifold on these engines is wet so the water
is most likely to cool the carb and prevent percolation. Hope this helps you.
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:20:44 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - home

Jay,
I live about halfway between San Antonio and DFW. Killeen. I'll bet a lot
of the Army connected list members did tiime at Fort Hood. Where do you
live? Stratford? Texarkana? El Paso is a good guess, but according to my
map it is better than 100 miles to Arizona from El Paso. I don't want to be
between you and it. The twenty minutes to a foreign country in your F100
pretty much limits you to the Rio Grande area or else you don't live in
Texas.


- -John

jmlagron tenet.edu
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI AOD
Macintosh G3/233 minitower (When speed counts, count on Macintosh)
1979 MC under restoration (my son is rebellious, but he loves old cars!!!)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:21:35 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Proposed legislation

Attention FTE list members:

On page 27-28 in the June 98 Low Rider Magazine is an article on two
proposed laws that the Colorado legislature is considering. The first law
would ban cruising. The second law (S.B. 34) would ban vehicles with
altered suspension and prohibit changes to tire size, wheel size, body
height, and chassis configuration.

Cheez and thought Teaxs was the only state with a screw up legislature. I
can see it all now.......
Black market wheels and tires to go with our Freon 12. Smog nazis with spec
sheets on every vehicle made since 1896. Colorado Jeff's picture in the
post office next to Deacon's......

Tony will have to come back from Cuba and get us all out if jail........


- -John

jmlagron tenet.edu
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI AOD
Macintosh G3/233 minitower (When speed counts, count on Macintosh)
1979 MC under restoration (my son is rebellious, but he loves old cars!!!)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:32:31 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: FTE 61-79 - getting sponsors

Well, truck pulling season starts in a few days here in PA. i am still
missing a bottom end to my engine. need some machine work and all the
parts have not arrived yet.

For about 6 yrs, i have spent my own money but now i have decided to try to
get some sponsors to help, and become more competitive.

does anyone have information, experience, or ideas on how to get
information needed to make this happen. i can get my foot in the door with
a few businesses, but from there i am lost.

i have the ability to make a "racing portfolio" here, but i have never seen
one to know where to start.

i also could really use some facts/figures of the demographics of
motorsports in general, or truck/tractor pulling specifically. anyone have
any ideas where to get this info?

any help is greatfully appreciated, and i would forever be thankful for
anything that helps me get sponsors.

TIA
sleddog

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:40:50 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re:carburators

> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:34:22 -0700
> From: tom
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re:carburators

> contemplating an Edelbrock but now ya got me thinking of an Autolite
> 4100. Pony sells em rebuilt for $200. How are these carbs as far as
> tuning and leaking goes. I remember manual chokes were pretty
> foolproof. is that the way to go?

Never had an edelbrock but know enough about them to highly recommend
them. If you are going to spend money on a new carb, I highly
recommend you get the edlebrock, not the pony because it is so much
more tuneable. If you have to get a manifold or plan on a manifold
later then the rochester or thermo quad is the way to go even if you
have to buy an adapter temporarily till you get the manifold.

Spread bores are to older vehicles like MAF and MAP is to newer ones,
it gives you the best metering at all rpm and load ranges but also
gives you a big hole in the top of the motor at WOT :-)

Azie and I use the OEM versions right now but my next one will be a
Rochester so I can tune it a little better.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:43:49 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 410 Merc

Marko writes: >>
66 Mercury 410, bored 30 over
about 9:1 compression
michigan bearings
engle cam
cloyes true roller chain
stock oil pump
new valves/guides/shafts
deep rear sump 4x4 pan (of course!)
"S" code 4bbl intake (stock 410 part from '66)
Stan's tri-Y headers (chrome)
Autolite 4100 (cadmium kitted)
Duraspark ignition with big cap, Auto Line rebuilt distributor
Pent roof valve covers with Mercury script

Did you lay the main bearings in the block and notice the misalignment and
correct this as well as drill the oil passage from the filter to the center
galley to a larger passage????

Have you fired it off yet?? Driven it down the road yet??? If you've
already posted all this, I apoligize, but I was out for a week and got so
far behind I may have deleted the post without reading all of it. I really
want to know how you like the 410. I loved mine, but that was several
years ago. and it got stolen before I really got to know all it could do.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:51:09 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Autolite carbs

> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:40:21 -0700
> From: John MacNamara
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Autolite carbs

> > > http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.cybervillage.com/ponycarburetor/spreadbore.htm

> Azie claims to have a factory Autolite spreadbore which Stu I
> believe wanted more info on. As yet we haven't heard from him on
> this anomaly. Pony Carburetors modifies the 4100 to create a
> "spreadbore efect" by shrinking the venturi's on the primary

I went to the site after I posted this and discovered what you just
pointed out. It's not a rochester for sure. The rochester has
roughly double the size secondarys as primarys and is vastly more
tuneable than the pony from what I can see. I had the OEM spread
bore on a cleveland and it REALY, REALY turned on at higher rpms,
trust me. It does all right on the 460 too.

What we need to keep in mind is that the Rochester, Carter thermo
quad and Holley 4165/75 carbs will not fit on a ford spread bore
manifold, they require a special manifold with a different bolt
pattern and hole sizes. Unfortunately the Offy 360 degree is the
only one I know of for a ford engine.

Unless you are circle track, off road or drag racing the spread bore
will always, under all conditions on the street or off road be the
prefered carb if you want economy AND performance and there's no
opinion involved, it's just a fact (IMNSHO :-)).

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:50:43 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Spreadbore.

John writes: >>Azie claims to have a factory Autolite spreadbore which Stu
I believe wanted more info on. As yet we haven't heard from him on this
anomaly. Pony Carburetors modifies the 4100 to create a "spreadbore efect"
by shrinking the venturi's on the primary sidefromn 1.12" to 1.00". The
bottom plate of the 4100 is definitely a square bore pattern. Until we
here more from Azie on his "spreadbore", this is all that I can add.

I definitely have an Autolite spreadbore.. That I know. Now whether its a
4100 or not I have no Idea. I'll get all the info this weekend from the
markings, tags, and I'll even measure the bore size with my calipers and
post them. Look for this to appear on the list Tuesday or Wednesday
(Monday is a holiday and I only have access work) If I forget someone
remind me.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:00:35 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Carb

Tom writes:>> Plus when the fuel pump pressurizes the carb it leaks
around the top.

Classic case of either one of two things. The float level is set too high
or the needle is not closing off in the seat.

Take it apart again. Blow thru the inlet while moving the float with one
of your fingers. Does it completely shut off?? or does it continue to
leak air by when supposedly closed?? Is the float about level with the
plane of the carb when it shuts off?? Adjust it by the instruction sheet.
You should be able to correct this.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:05:03 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - home

> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:20:44 -0500
> From: "John LaGrone"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - home

> but according to my map it is better than 100 miles to Arizona from
> El Paso. I don't want to be between you and it. The twenty minutes
> to a foreign country in your F100 pretty much limits you to the Rio
> Grande area or else you don't live in Texas.

I was only 12 at the time but we lived in El Paso and white sands was
a short drive away (NM) and Cloud Croft was about a 90 min drive....


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