RE: FTE 61-79 - re:re: Carbs open plenum spacer

61-79-list-digest Thursday, May 21 1998 Volume 02 : Number 296

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In this issue:

RE: FTE 61-79 - re:re: Carbs open plenum spacer
Re: FTE 61-79 - re:re: Carbs open plenum spacer
RE: FTE 61-79 - re:re: Carbs open plenum spacer
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Carbs/Adapters
Re: FTE 61-79 - rear end ID
FTE 61-79 - Calling Ron Miller
FTE 61-79 - Re: Whippin' Post
FTE 61-79 - 1966 Ford F100 Prices & Service Specifications for Trucks.
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Whippin' Post
FTE 61-79 - temporary garages
Re: FTE 61-79 - Aluminum Intake for 390
Re: FTE 61-79 - Jerky starts
Re: FTE 61-79 - ford truck parts for sale,cleaning garage
Re: FTE 61-79 - Autolite carbs
FTE 61-79 - Screw in cast iron "freeze" plugs
FTE 61-79 - Heater Line Routes
Re: FTE 61-79 - Whippin' Post
Re: FTE 61-79 - Screw in cast iron "freeze" plugs
RE: FTE 61-79 - Re: Carbs/Adapters
RE: FTE 61-79 - re:re: Carbs open plenum spacer

=======================================================================

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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:05:07 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - re:re: Carbs open plenum spacer

you would most likely never notice the difference in having the plenum open
in the adapter. it will allow each cylinder to breath off of all 4
barrels, instead of only 2 and it increases the plenum volume each cyl.
"sees", but not by a substantial amount.

if anything, you would notice the motor pull a little harder and hang on a
little longer at the top. i got 500 extra rpm out of a 2" spacer (open) on
a 2 plane intake on my 460.

very doubtful you would ever notice a loss in the bottom end, or responce
from using an open spacer.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Deacon[SMTP:deconblu

gte.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 1998 4:14 AM
To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - re:re: Carbs
From: Jim Cron
>I have a Edelbrock Performer manifold and a Mr. Gasket adaptor
>but this adaptor is open so would have a gap from the plenum divider to
the
>carb base? Is there a closed style adaptor that would seal to the top
of
>the plenum divider, or did you leave it open?

The adapter your looking at Jim is for a single-plane manifold.
It may be possible to insert something into the adapter that would work
or just live with the fact your not getting the full benefits from the
dual-plane manifold.

Don't you just love how much I can say about something I know nothing
about! :)

Deacon
deconblu

gte.net
=============================
Nuke the unborn baby whales.
=============================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:26:56 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - re:re: Carbs open plenum spacer

Sleddog wrote:

> you would most likely never notice the difference in having the plenum open
> in the adapter. it will allow each cylinder to breath off of all 4
> barrels, instead of only 2 and it increases the plenum volume each cyl.
> "sees", but not by a substantial amount.
>
> if anything, you would notice the motor pull a little harder and hang on a
> little longer at the top. i got 500 extra rpm out of a 2" spacer (open) on
> a 2 plane intake on my 460.
>
> very doubtful you would ever notice a loss in the bottom end, or responce
> from using an open spacer.
>
> sleddog
>

FYI:

PAW shows an adapter in their catalog that has a divider built into it. I
suspect this is for those intakes with no divider at all.

Regards
John

78 F250 4X4 Supercab
67 GT500

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:35:57 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - re:re: Carbs open plenum spacer

instead of only 2 and it increases the plenum volume each cyl.
>"sees", but not by a substantial amount.
>
>if anything, you would notice the motor pull a little harder and hang on a
>little longer at the top. i got 500 extra rpm out of a 2" spacer (open) on
>a 2 plane intake on my 460.
>
>very doubtful you would ever notice a loss in the bottom end, or responce
>from using an open spacer.
>

Sleddog, This is the kinda stuff only you and Jack Roush would stay awake at
night loosing sleep over. I am jealous of your abilities to figure this out
and I admire your tenacity and your desire to squeeze every ounce of power
from an engine. I realize daily I don't know nearly what I thought I knew!

Wanna build my engine this fall?
Stuuke GM!

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ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Carbs/Adapters
> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:18:32 -0500

> >>adapter which has been called into question by a fellow list
> >>member (please tell me more about why it's detrimental, I really
> >>want more info)
>
> I thought it was Gary but wasn't sure. I am curious about the
> detrimental effect of this style adapter. I want the best working

I'm not sure what "style" you mean but ANY adapter is less efficient
than a manifold made to fit the carb with the exception of a simple
spacer plate to get more intake length if properly applied. We
talked about a spacer with either open plenum or holes to match the
carb and I said the open is good for an open plenum but the holy one
is better for a split plenum as it keeps the velocity up better for
better low/midrange torque. I don't call this an adapter.

I've put spread bores on home made (modified square bore plates)
adapters and they made the engine go around but I'm sure they could
be improved on. Adapters are just what the name implys, a way to fit
something that doesn't fit otherwise which is never as good as a
direct bolt up in any application but especially were air flow is
involved. Ask yourself how does the NASCAR restrictor plate work?
Even though it's fairly thin it restricts the air flow so the engine
can't get the full use of the carb. If you adapt a spread bore to a
square bore OEM manifold with holes that match the original square
bore carb then you can't get any more air in than the openings will
allow anyway so the spread bore advantage is lost. Since you have
also introduced more gaskets and mating edges you have the potential
of disturbing the air flow even more. This is basically what I was
getting at.

The Carter thermo quad and Rochester have some advantages that make
them a good choice as a replacement even with an adapter I suppose
but it's even a better choice if you plan to upgrade the manifold
later as a continuing process of improving the engine. This agrees
with my policy of buying in a logical order so that you can build on
your investment without having to discard anything expensive as you
progress which also calls for some kind of a plan or strategy. Buy
the carb and "temporary" adapter and when you get the cash, go for
the manifold etc.. I only buy 78 trucks so I can keep a spare parts
supply that doesn't get out of hand for instance. When I do my
engine I will fully prep the block, putting all my resources into a
solid bottom end, crank, rods and pistons and any machining or
reinforcing it may need including screw in cast iron "freeze" plugs
but may use stock cam and heads and even manifolds. Now I can "add"
to this without pulling the engine and progressively build the engine
I always wanted on a shoe string.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:29:58 -0700
From: Keith Srb
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - rear end ID

At 11:42 PM 5/20/98 EDT, you wrote:
>KEITH:
>
>THANKS, WONDER WHAT THE REST OF THE NUMBERS AND LETTERS MEAN, CAN'T FIND
IT IN
>THE MANUAL...
>
>
>THANKS AGAIN
>MIKE IN SEATTLE.

Take it easy Mike you don't have to shout.

I wonder if the parts department at your local Ford Dealer could shed some
light on this?

Later

Keith Srb herbie

netvalue.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.netvalue.net/herbie
Mesa, AZ
1986 Ford Bronco II, 2.9L (I HATE LITERS) V-6, Mitsubishi 5-Speed.
1980 Harley Davidson, XLH, Rebuilt from the frame up.
1974 Ford F250 Ranger XLT, Camper Special, 390ci 4bbl, Automatic, Long Box,
Style Side.
1966 Ford F100, 240 C.I. Straight Six, Model 1100 1bbl carb, Oil Bath Air
Cleaner, Warner T-18 4-Speed, Short Box Style Side.
My Blood runs "TRUE BLUE FORD on Four Wheels and Pure HARLEY on Two Wheels!"
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ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Calling Ron Miller

>Hello: For those people who would like an option to the Ford and
>Edlbrock aluminum 4bl intakes for the 390, I have scanned an image of
>the Ford Power Parts intake. If you email me privately, I can send the
>picture.

Didn't Ron Miller used to run FPP and sell an excellent FE low-riser intake?
If it's the same guy, he is the authority on FE stuff. I've read a lot about
his cars in the rags.(is he the same person as at Auto Krafters and a fellow
list member?)
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr

ldd.net

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ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Whippin' Post

>>Dr. Demented, er um I mean, uh Deacon, I think Ballinger has it in for you,
>>He writes his own lyrics and day are betta
>>than some you quote and write! Oh my my!!
>>Deacon has some competition!!!!!

Ah jeezz here come 40 more stripes, thanks ALOT man.
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr

ldd.net

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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:50:38 -0700
From: Keith Srb
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 1966 Ford F100 Prices & Service Specifications for Trucks.

This is for anybody that has a 66 F-100.

I just purchased a Ford Salesman's 1966 Ford Prices Booklet. The booklet
contains Ford's Suggested retail prices for cars and lights trucks, the
F-100 is the only Truck model covered. I am assuming that these prices are
for the base models with no options, but I couldn't find anything in the
booklet that would say for sure. This booklet looks like it came directly
from Ford. The Prices are effective as of January 1, 1966.

F-100 115 inch Wheelbase
Pickup-Flareside $ 2068.74
Pickup-Styleside $ 2084.49

F-100 129 Inch Wheelbase
Pickup-Flareside $ 2105.24
Pickup-Styleside $ 2120.74

F-100 115 inch Wheelbase 4-Wheel Drive
Pickup-Flareside $ 2786.74
Pickup-Styleside $ 2802.49

F-100 129 Inch Wheelbase
Pickup-Flareside $ 2826.99
Pickup-Styleside $ 2842.74

I also bought a 1966 Ford Service Specifications for Trucks book that
covers all of the 1966 Ford Trucks. This book lists all kinds of service
information. If anybody would like to know something about the service
specifics of their 1966 Ford Truck email me privately with your question
and I will see if this book can answer it for your.

See Ya!

Keith Srb herbie

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:47:53 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Whippin' Post

At 12:22 PM 5/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>>Dr. Demented, er um I mean, uh Deacon, I think Ballinger has it in for you,
>>>He writes his own lyrics and day are betta
>>>than some you quote and write! Oh my my!!
>>>Deacon has some competition!!!!!
>
>Ah jeezz here come 40 more stripes, thanks ALOT man.

Always been known to be one who when "he" gets hauled out, it is usually
kickin and screamin at the top of his lungs!!
So, as I depart, I must always pave the way for those less experienced with
brother Jim, aka The Deacon, Dr. Demented, the Bro of the list! Mr.
Strigas, take care of William for me til August! I'll be back!!!!!
I have been a list member since the very early days, I'd hate to let it
have too good of a name with everyone! :P
Kiddin Ken!!

Stu

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thecore.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - temporary garages

Howdy

I was wondering if anyone has picked up a temporary garage and how it
has held up. What brand did you get if so. I am thinking of getting one
big enough to house the bronc and my 21' boat.

OX
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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:50:56 -0700
From: Marko Maryniak
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Aluminum Intake for 390

At 07:14 AM 21/05/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>Hello: For those people who would like an option to the Ford and
>Edlbrock aluminum 4bl intakes for the 390, I have scanned an image of
>the Ford Power Parts intake. If you email me privately, I can send the
>picture.
>
>
>Thanks
>John
>
John,

What I really want is that manifold and the eight webers on the 454 Ford
that you sent me the article about!

marko in vancouver

marko

helix.net

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chrysler.com wrote:

> Bill writes: >>It seems like the engine just isn't connected to the
> drivetrain at first then... jerk, and away it goes. No apparent noise.
>
> The tranny is going into neutral - not the shift - the tranny. You may be
> idled too slow, or the filter/pickup could be partially clogged. A
> fluid/filter change might help. If this keeps up, look for far more
> serious things to start to happen. You are losing fluid pressure and "that
> ain't good". Pressure is what keeps an automatic alive and operational.
>
> All JMHO.
>
> Azie

I had the same problem on a front wheel drive car I had. I took the car to a
local service (if you could call it that) station instead of changing the
tranny fluid my self. I figured they could just put it up on the rack and do
it in 1/4 of the time as me trying to slide under. Anyway they refilled it
cold and not running. I got the car back and to it to town and every time I
got to a stop sign/light I would come to a stop and when it came time to go I
didn't then like you say "jerk, and away it goes." It turned out that by
filling it cold and not running it was about 1 1/2 quarts low. This was
enough to cause all the problems. After topping it off and driven for about a
mile it didn't have the problems any more.

- --
Don Grossman
duckdon

pacific.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacific.net/~duckdon

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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:48:00 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ford truck parts for sale,cleaning garage

JJJJJGRANT wrote:

> i'm not sure

Neither am I. What were we talking about here or have I just lost all
grasp of reality.

they come to take me away, he he

(Fading into background..........)
Don Grossman
duckdon

pacific.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacific.net/~duckdon

63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.

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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:53:45 -0700
From: Marko Maryniak
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Autolite carbs

>I would appreciate it If I could get a photo copy of all the 4100 info.
>Trying to create the ultimate owners manual as I build my truck along So I
>won't have to search later in life again.
>
>Private email if you can help out.
>Gratzi
>
>STU
>Nuke GM!
>

Stu:

I expect sharesies on this!!

marko in vancouver

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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:23:14 -0700
From: Keith Srb
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Screw in cast iron "freeze" plugs

snip

Gary said
>When I do my
>engine I will fully prep the block, putting all my resources into a
>solid bottom end, crank, rods and pistons and any machining or
>reinforcing it may need including screw in cast iron "freeze" plugs
>but may use stock cam and heads and even manifolds. Now I can "add"
>to this without pulling the engine and progressively build the engine
>I always wanted on a shoe string.
>
>78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
>78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
>78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
>
>-- Gary --

Screw in cast iron freeze plugs. O.K. This is a new one on me. They make
a screw in cast iron freeze plug? Why would you want to use something like
that ?

Thanks

Keith Srb herbie

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murphyfarms.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Heater Line Routes

Hey Folks,

Enjoyed meeting everyone at the Forge.
What a Blast!!!! Can't wait till next year!

I have a '68 with a 360 and am in the
process of putting A/C on it. (Thanks,
Stu). The current heater hoses on it
has a unique set up on it. I had hoped
that I would see one like mine at the
Forge but no luck. On one side the
heater core is the heater control valve
and terminates on the front of the manifold.
On the other side of the heater core there is
a "T" fitting. The "T" is between the radiator,
heater core and the off shoot connects to the
carb. adapter. Strange! I don't think it's right,
especially since none of the '68's I looked at
at the Forge had this configuration. If anyone
can shed some light I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

-Ted
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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:25:18 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Whippin' Post

From: Stu Varner
>Dr. Demented, er um I mean, uh Deacon, I think Ballinger has it in for
you,
>He writes his own lyrics and day are betta
>than some you quote and write! Oh my my!!
>Deacon has some competition!!!!!

You are cold Stu! Here I thought you would feel bad for the guy and
you put new rope on the whipping post and braided glass and bone in the
whip. Have you no heart? I have no competition. Bill is my partner, he
has no wish to compete with me. He was just holding the net while I
reeled you in. But you just grabbed the bait and ran.

>Homepage will be up all summer long so check in for new pictures every
few
>weeks or so!
>Thanks Tony Marino!!!!!!

Hmm, maybe I just used the wrong bait! That Tony is a good kid,
ain't he Stu. I can tell that you like him a lot, don't ya! :] Sure
would hate to see anything happen to him while your gone. Got the net
ready Bill? I think we'll be going Marino fishing!

From: Tony Marino
>Thanks OLD MAN!! 8-)
>
>Yeah, I might as well tell you guys that I added another truck to my
>collection making 4 now. It's a '70 as Stu said, shortbed, stepside,
4x4

Sounds like you got a nice truck there Tony! Stepside is a Chevy
though. Fords are flairside and styleside. I would hate for Stu to get
the wrong idea. Those mushroom clouds can put a strain on a friendship!
:]

Deacon
deconblu

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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:36:39 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Screw in cast iron "freeze" plugs

> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:23:14 -0700
> From: Keith Srb
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Screw in cast iron "freeze" plugs

> Screw in cast iron freeze plugs. O.K. This is a new one on me.
> They make a screw in cast iron freeze plug? Why would you want to
> use something like that ?

Obviously they aren't really necessary or you wouldn't be hearing
numbers like 300k miles with no major engine work.........but they
are fun and actually have a purpose on engines that see some hard
work. Being of the same material as the block they help evenly
distrubute the heat and also torque loads which tends to keep the
cylinders more round under stress. The difference may be small,
don't know but when I first saw the idea it imediately grabbed my
imagination so I ran with it. I did my 460 that way and have no
regrets but you better anti-sieze them if you ever plan to retank the
block. I used square, male wrench lug type but the hex, female type
is cleaner and stays out of the way of starter contacts.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:36:34 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Re: Carbs/Adapters

>----------
>From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3

ford.com]
>Sent: Thursday, May 21, 1998 8:45 AM
>To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Carbs/Adapters

>I only buy 78 trucks so I can keep a spare parts

78 trucks? at one time?

>supply that doesn't get out of hand for instance. When I do my
>engine I will fully prep the block, putting all my resources into a
>solid bottom end, crank, rods and pistons and any machining or
>reinforcing it may need including screw in cast iron "freeze" plugs
>but may use stock cam and heads and even manifolds. Now I can "add"
>to this without pulling the engine and progressively build the engine
>I always wanted on a shoe string.

this is a good way to do it.

sleddog

>78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
>78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
>78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

>-- Gary --

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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:48:05 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - re:re: Carbs open plenum spacer

thanks, but i only wish i knew what Jack Roush knew! and had the resources
to apply it like he does.

i do lose alot of sleep over that last HP. but i am usually thinking so
far ahead of where i am REALLY at with my engine, that i get a bit lost on
the way back to reality.

build your engine? when i get done with mine!

i'd love to, especially if it was a cammer or tunnel port FE with a 12-71
blower, 454 cid with a alcohol injectorater, magneto ignition, and a 400 hp
progressive nitrous system plumbed in hiding (sneaky!) with headers coming
out of the hood and a really big roller bump stick and a torque and HP peak
real close together straddling the 8500rpm mark. sound interesting to you?

oh, one more thing, you'd have to put in my cobra kit car i wanna build in
the next couple of years- before i am too "afraid" to drive it!

or maybe a 48 merc for 2wd truck pulling...

sleddog

- ----------
From: Stu Varner[SMTP:varners

ten-nash.ten.k12.tn.us]
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 1998 7:35 AM
To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - re:re: Carbs open plenum spacer

instead of only 2 and it increases the plenum volume each cyl.
>"sees", but not by a substantial amount.
>
>if anything, you would notice the motor pull a little harder and hang on a
>little longer at the top. i got 500 extra rpm out of a 2" spacer (open)
on
>a 2 plane intake on my 460.
>
>very doubtful you would ever notice a loss in the bottom end, or responce
>from using an open spacer.
>

Sleddog, This is the kinda stuff only you and Jack Roush would stay awake
at
night loosing sleep over. I am jealous of your abilities to figure this....

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