61-79-list-digest Wednesday, May 20 1998 Volume 02 : Number 292



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - 428 to 427
Re: FTE 61-79 - Good-bye and see ya next fall
FTE 61-79 - Transmission problem.
FTE 61-79 - 9 inch rear-end ID
FTE 61-79 - Re: Emergency brake light, Speedometer and other odds and ends
FTE 61-79 - Cleveland in a Unibody?
FTE 61-79 - Re: Brake Fluid
FTE 61-79 - crossover
Re: FTE 61-79 - Good-bye and see ya next fall
Re: FTE 61-79 - 9 inch rear-end ID
Re: FTE 61-79 - crossover
FTE 61-79 - spreadbore
Re: FTE 61-79 - Good-bye and see ya next fall
Re: FTE 61-79 - '68 Biody/ '95 frame
Re: FTE 61-79 - Foreigners
Re: FTE 61-79 - spreadbore
Re: FTE 61-79 - 203 Transfer Case problems
Re: FTE 61-79 - spreadbore
FTE 61-79 - Ignorance confession

=======================================================================

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Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:08:26 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 428 to 427

Hey Tom,

The 427's were cast on a different line than the other FE's and were cast with
the bigger bores. If I remember from either Christ's or Ganahl's book, they
were machined to tighter tolerances had a different casting metal....in other
words, probably no way on boring out the 428....but, being an optimist, maybe
someone here will tell us I'm wrong....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:28:46 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Good-bye and see ya next fall

>I suppose you are talking about somebody else? Or did y'all get together
>in Pigeon Forge just to make fun of me?
>
Marko -

Actually you were a large topic of conversation from the 61-79 bunch that
attended PF. They all looked at me and said, "where's Marko been?" (Like I
am my brother's keeper)
Ken said you'd be back. I just told 'em you been really busy with work ,
the resto and kyaking etc. You have been missed here of late!!!!!
You do have a knowledge that is valuable to the list.

Me, i am just good at being full of BS!! I am a world champ at that! :^}

Gotta bring your truck next year Marko!
Your Mercury 3/4 ton 4x4 of 1967 vintage will be one show stopper if you
bring it next year!!! Please say you'll stop by Deacon's house (get the
fishin' pole too) and snag him for the trip east if you show. Get Keith
Srb too! That would be one fun trip across country in a 32 year old Mercury
truck! I may fly out west just to ride with youall if you do it!


Stu
Nuke GM!

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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:35:00 -0500
From: Bill Adams
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Transmission problem.

My grocery getter is having a transmission problem.
When you hit the gas after sitting at a light it sometimes "jerks" as
the automatic transmission catches.
It seems like the engine just isn't connected to the drivetrain at first
then... jerk, and away it goes.
No apparent noise.

Any Ideas?

Ok It's a Chev Celebrity 2.5L front wheel drive and I know I need to
trade it in on a Explorer or some such but the wife bought it while I
was in Saudi Arabia, OK.

After listening to the descriptions here I plan to change filter and
fluid this weekend.
- --
Thanks (and sorry)
Bill Adams

The WoodButcher's Shop
"http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/heartland/plains/6640"

,.-----__
,:::://///,:::-.
/:''/////// `` ::`;/|/
/' ( Ford ) :://'`\
.' , |||||| `/( e \
-===~__-'\____ ```\_____/~`-._ `.
~~ ~~ `~-'
Ford-O-dilla
**************************************************************
* "Time was when the mystery and wonder of handicrafts *
* were well acknowledged by the world, when imagination *
* and fancy mingled with all things made by man; *
* and in those days all craftsmen were artists." -MORRIS *
**************************************************************


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:36:56 -0500
From: Bill Adams
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 9 inch rear-end ID

How does one identify the ford 9 inch rear end.
Is it viable in a 66 F-100, that seldom hauls anything but sometimes
tows other old trucks?
- --
Just wondering?
Bill Adams

The WoodButcher's Shop
"http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/heartland/plains/6640"

,.-----__
,:::://///,:::-.
/:''/////// `` ::`;/|/
/' ( Ford ) :://'`\
.' , |||||| `/( e \
-===~__-'\____ ```\_____/~`-._ `.
~~ ~~ `~-'
**************************************************************
* "Time was when the mystery and wonder of handicrafts *
* were well acknowledged by the world, when imagination *
* and fancy mingled with all things made by man; *
* and in those days all craftsmen were artists." -MORRIS *
**************************************************************


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Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:58:04 -0500
From: Bill Adams
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Emergency brake light, Speedometer and other odds and ends

Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 21:49:58 -0400
Garry Bowling Wrote:


Speedometer: ever since I swapped the 3 spd tranny and installed a C-6
the speedometer is 8 mph off. It registers too fast. Also the needle
bounces a whole lot until you get going about 30 or 40.. I replaced the
cable during the restoration but not the gear that goes into the
transmission. Any ideas out there?
- --
Bearing in Mind that I have never been inside an automatic
transmission....

but I bet they work a lot the same.

That bouncing until around 30 or 40, sounds a lot like what happened to
my T-18, My T-18 was also reading inacurately but usually reading too
slow. The gear on the shaft INSIDE the transmission which causes the
speedo cable to turn, was stripped. I removed it, (the gear) took it to
a transmission shop, they counted teeth and ordered me a new one. Of all
the stupid things, the gear on the end of the speedometer cable (easy
to change) was metal, and the gear inside the transmision (hard to
change) was plastic! That situation is now reversed.

Since you recently changed your transmision, I bet the speedo cable gear
isn't meshing with the shaft gear inside the transmision.

That may fix your entire problem. On the other hand it may still be 8mph
off after the new gear is in place.
If it is you have to make a lot of calcualations concerning the gear
ratio of your rear end and your rear tire size.
I don't know the exact procedure but I bet someone on this list does.

L8re
Bill Adams

The WoodButcher's Shop
"http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/heartland/plains/6640"

,.-----__
,:::://///,:::-.
/:''/////// `` ::`;/|/
/' ( Ford ) :://'`\
.' , |||||| `/( e \
-===~__-'\____ ```\_____/~`-._ `.
~~ ~~ `~-'
**************************************************************
* "Time was when the mystery and wonder of handicrafts *
* were well acknowledged by the world, when imagination *
* and fancy mingled with all things made by man; *
* and in those days all craftsmen were artists." -MORRIS *
**************************************************************


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:31:19 -0500
From: Bill Adams
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Cleveland in a Unibody?

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 06:52:18 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Ford Trucks (was Split wood, Politics, etc.)

By the way, I think you are halfway to a PhD dissertation with this
idea.3
You've convinced me, anyway.


1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

351C in a unibody? Hmmmm. Ive got a 16 Unibody, and I've got a 351C. :)

Did you do the swap? Tell me about it. The 223 6 is OK but......




Bill Adams
66 F-100 352 V8, PS, AC Long bed T-18 Granny
61 F-100 223 and a three on the tree.


The WoodButcher's Shop
"http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/heartland/plains/6640"

,.-----__
,:::://///,:::-.
/:''/////// `` ::`;/|/
/' ( Ford ) :://'`\
.' , |||||| `/( e \
-===~__-'\____ ```\_____/~`-._ `.
~~ ~~ `~-'
**************************************************************
* "Time was when the mystery and wonder of handicrafts *
* were well acknowledged by the world, when imagination *
* and fancy mingled with all things made by man; *
* and in those days all craftsmen were artists." -MORRIS *
**************************************************************

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:17:17 -0500
From: Bill Adams
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Brake Fluid

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:16:04 -0400
From: "Kristen Marcellus"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Brake Fluid

On a more serious note - is it possible for brake fluid to go bad? Does
synthetic brake fluid become thick when it gets older? Tomorrow I'm
draining the brake fluid out of the system and need to know what I can
do to
flush it out and what's the best to put back in. The power brakes fail
in
stop and go traffic but straighten out once you get going again. If
anyone
has any idea why I'd really appreciate any suggestions.

Tell us more, Kristen.
Disc or drum?
Is the motor running alright?
Were you braking hard, as in 60 MPH stop and go or was it 25 MPH stop
and go.

If it was stop and go with lots of hard braking, it was probably brake
fade, especially if your running drum brakes. The only fix for that is
make sure your drums are clean (not caked with mud) and are getting good
ventalation. They are just getting too hot. Some Custom wheels will
cause this by keeping air from getting to the drums.

Check your brake lines, make sure they are not too close to your exhaust
manifold or other hot things. If they are the fluid can boil and have
the same effect as air in the lines. The breeze when you get moving will
cool the lines and the brakes work again.

Is the motor running good? A vacuum leak can cause power brakes to be
weak. After they are powered by engine vacuum.

Ive seen all these cause the brakes to act sort of like what you
describe.

Bill Adams


The WoodButcher's Shop
"http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/heartland/plains/6640"

,.-----__
,:::://///,:::-.
/:''/////// `` ::`;/|/
/' ( Ford ) :://'`\
.' , |||||| `/( e \
-===~__-'\____ ```\_____/~`-._ `.
~~ ~~ `~-'
Ford-O-dilla
**************************************************************
* "Time was when the mystery and wonder of handicrafts *
* were well acknowledged by the world, when imagination *
* and fancy mingled with all things made by man; *
* and in those days all craftsmen were artists." -MORRIS *
**************************************************************


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:51:26 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - crossover

Gary writes: >>I haven't inspected one but I suspect that there is no
cross over either since one of the reasons we buy these is to get a cold
intake. This also reduces the cost quite a bit. The EGR part is just a
drilled hole and slightly different carb base which wouldn't effect the
cost very much.

Maybe I jumped in without knowing what we were talking about. Are we
talking about stock factory intakes???? I've never seen one without the
exhaust crossover. It provides heat to the Intake for atomization of the
fuel. Also the ones that have EGR is merely cast with a place for the EGR
to bolt up over the crossover. I blocked these off when I was racing by
using thin aluminum sheets on both sides of the intake where the gaskets
had the holes for the crossover. You could buy special intake gaskets, but
they cost more, and thin aluminum sheets were free.

Am I in the wrong conversation????????

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:04:40 -0700
From: Keith Srb
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Good-bye and see ya next fall

At 01:28 PM 5/20/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>I suppose you are talking about somebody else? Or did y'all get together
>>in Pigeon Forge just to make fun of me?
>>
>Marko -
>
>Actually you were a large topic of conversation from the 61-79 bunch that
>attended PF. They all looked at me and said, "where's Marko been?" (Like I
>am my brother's keeper)
>Ken said you'd be back. I just told 'em you been really busy with work ,
>the resto and kyaking etc. You have been missed here of late!!!!!
>You do have a knowledge that is valuable to the list.
>
> Me, i am just good at being full of BS!! I am a world champ at that! :^}
>
>Gotta bring your truck next year Marko!
>Your Mercury 3/4 ton 4x4 of 1967 vintage will be one show stopper if you
>bring it next year!!! Please say you'll stop by Deacon's house (get the
>fishin' pole too) and snag him for the trip east if you show. Get Keith
>Srb too! That would be one fun trip across country in a 32 year old Mercury
>truck! I may fly out west just to ride with youall if you do it!
>

I am ready! Lets Go!

>
>Stu
>Nuke GM!
>

Keith Srb herbie netvalue.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.netvalue.net/herbie
Mesa, AZ
1986 Ford Bronco II, 2.9L (I HATE LITERS) V-6, Mitsubishi 5-Speed.
1980 Harley Davidson, XLH, Rebuilt from the frame up.
1974 Ford F250 Ranger XLT, Camper Special, 390ci 4bbl, Automatic, Long Box,
Style Side.
1966 Ford F100, 240 C.I. Straight Six, Model 1100 1bbl carb, Oil Bath Air
Cleaner, Warner T-18 4-Speed, Short Box Style Side.
My Blood runs "TRUE BLUE FORD on Four Wheels and Pure HARLEY on Two Wheels!"
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Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:27:01 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 9 inch rear-end ID

> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:36:56 -0500
> From: Bill Adams
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - 9 inch rear-end ID

> How does one identify the ford 9 inch rear end.
> Is it viable in a 66 F-100, that seldom hauls anything but sometimes
> tows other old trucks? -- Just wondering? Bill Adams

Look under any Chevy race car and you will find one..........They
don't have a rear access plate. All the gears are held in a front
loaded housing which can be removed as a unit from the front of the
axle housing so there is no need for a rear access cover.

There are very few makes with this type of setup so the 9" is sort of
by itself in most junk yards and easily spotted by this difference.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:23:44 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - crossover

> From: am14 chrysler.com
> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:51:26 -0400
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - crossover

> Gary writes: >>I haven't inspected one but I suspect that there is
> no cross over either since one of the reasons we buy these is to get
> a cold intake. This also reduces the cost quite a bit. The EGR part
> is just a drilled hole and slightly different carb base which
> wouldn't effect the cost very much.
>
> Maybe I jumped in without knowing what we were talking about. Are
> we talking about stock factory intakes???? I've never seen one

I may have jumped into the wrong one myself, I thought we were
talking about the edelbrock after market jobbies? ALL OEM manifolds
have a crossover AFAIK but there is no need in a performance,
aftermarket manifold if it doesn't have EGR so I wouldn't expect to
see one in a non EGR aluminum manifold.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:51:25 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - spreadbore

Marko writes: >>An Autolite spreadbore????

Yep!!! An Autolite spreadbore. Apparently Gary's opinion of them isn't the
same as mine, but thats OK, too. I like mine.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:58:16 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Good-bye and see ya next fall

From: Stu Varner
>Ken said you'd be back. I just told 'em you been really busy with work
,
>the resto and kyaking etc. You have been missed here of late!!!!!
>You do have a knowledge that is valuable to the list.

Don't paddle so fast Stu. Your sinking, slow down! :)

> Me, i am just good at being full of BS!! I am a world champ at that!
:^}

I tried people! He wouldn't listen, he wouldn't lis,,,,en. Oh God! Why
Stu? Marko's been on the list lurking. He knows what you said. :] If
not. My lips are sealed. ;]

Deacon, making Stu's last days pure HELL! :]

Be afraid, be very afraid! Ha ha ha HA Ha ha HAAAA ha ha!!!

You will get a computer and ISP at home or carry the guilt on your head!
If you leave for even a week, Bill Ballinger has volunteered to take
your place on the wiping post. So Bill, anything you'd like to say to
Stu? Yes, I thought you would! :] Ha ha ha HA Ha ha HAAAA ha ha!!!


Deacon
deconblu gte.net
=============================
Nuke the unborn baby whales.
=============================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/



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Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:23:41 -0600
From: Ryan Dorman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - '68 Biody/ '95 frame

I would recommend measuring the wheelbase and frame length of the 350, if it's
close go for it.

We put a 59 long box on a 78 150 4wd with relative ease, the differences were
negligible...

Good luck on the project, I'm debating on putting my 58 short box body on 1 of
my 80's Bronco
frames..


> John writes: >>Will a '68 body bolt up to an '85 frame? I just bought a
> '68 F250 with a great body and now am seeing an '85 F350 4x4 rollover
> victim for sale. Can I put the '68 body on the '85 frame without too much
> trouble? Or is this a rat's nest I ought to stay away from? I seem to
> remember reading that, I think in '73, the frame was widened and the
> wheelbase lengthened, or something of the like. This might put an end to
> the proceedings right there. But I am just in the dreaming stage right
> now, so does anybody know? A '68 F350 4x4 with a diesel would be pretty
> cool.



- --
KC7YPJ, Ryan Dorman
QTH: Victor ID, grid# DN431c
ICQ #3834602
kc7ypj pdt.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/5496


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Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:34:12 -0600
From: Ryan Dorman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Foreigners

West Texas

Jay Branscome wrote:

> JOHN,
> What part of Texas do you happen to be in. Where I live I can be in
> another state in 15 minutes. a 2nd in an hour and another country in my
> 65 F100 (theres the FTE required info) in 20 minutes. Care to guess
> where I live?
>
> >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:11:27 -0500
> >To: Ford Trucks 61-79
> >From: "John LaGrone"
> >Subject: FTE 61-79 - Foreigners
> >Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>
> >jmlagron tenet.edu
> >1979 F150 Custom 351M C6
> >1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI AOD
> >Macintosh G3/233 minitower (When speed counts, count on Macintosh)
> >1979 MC under restoration (my son is rebellious)
> >
> >Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!
> >
> >
> >= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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> >"unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the message body.
> >=======================================================================
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________
> > = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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> =======================================================================



- --
KC7YPJ, Ryan Dorman
QTH: Victor ID, grid# DN431c
ICQ #3834602
kc7ypj pdt.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/5496


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Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:33:52 -0700
From: Marko Maryniak
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - spreadbore

At 03:51 PM 20/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Marko writes: >>An Autolite spreadbore????
>
>Yep!!! An Autolite spreadbore. Apparently Gary's opinion of them isn't the
>same as mine, but thats OK, too. I like mine.
>
>Azie
>Ardmore, Al.
>
Azie, I said tell me more! What's the bore sizes, do you need a spreadbore
manifold or is it a hybrid 1.08/1.12" model, what kinda cars were they
originally installed on, what cfm do they move, etc. etc.

thanks,


marko 8^]

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Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:42:15 -0600
From: Ryan Dorman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 203 Transfer Case problems

400 heads suck.. ever wonder why you see so many 400m powered trucks
smoking,(other than obtaining nicotine!).. the valve guides and seals used
on the 400m were junk, if anyone reading this plans on building a 400m have
a machine shop put new (non oem)guides and seals in the heads.

Stu Varner wrote:

> . 400 heads
> >are better than one!
> >
>
> I like FE heads better! :(
> What a smart aleke!
> Stu
>
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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- --
KC7YPJ, Ryan Dorman
QTH: Victor ID, grid# DN431c
ICQ #3834602
kc7ypj pdt.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/5496


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Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:46:51 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - spreadbore

> From: am14 chrysler.com
> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:51:25 -0400
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - spreadbore

> Yep!!! An Autolite spreadbore. Apparently Gary's opinion of them
> isn't the same as mine, but thats OK, too. I like mine.

I get 12 mpg with a 460 equipped with one Azie, it's the dang
proprietary bolt pattern that really irks me. They are pretty simple
and don't leak much etc. but hard to tune if they won't cooperate
with the engine they're on. Course most of them came on 460's so
it's a no brainer pretty much. I had a problem when I put headers on
and lost a bit of mixture at the top end (I think).

At least with the rochester I could experiment with metering
rods.....:-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:32:44 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Ignorance confession

>From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Bronco/
>
>> catalyst (although it does provide some minor non-catalyst HC
>> reduction benefits), but using them on non-catalyst engines was
>> probably just a convenience to simplify assembly line production.
>
>I could be wrong (there's always a first time) but I can't see ford
>putting relatively expensive parts on an engine just to fit their
>fixtures or make the job consistant, trust me, they just don't do
>that :-)
>
>BTW, Dave, you really are up on these baby's aren't you? :-)

Yo FTE Gang:

OK, I must admit, I'm not as far up on them as I ought to be. And yes, I
am not familiar w/ Bronco weight ratings and especially the 77-79 vintage.
Please accept my apologies for any incorrect information I have passed on.

My knowledge of the 77-79 M-block trucks and Broncos is based mostly on
casual observation at the bone yards and occasionally ogling someone else's
truck. The only direct experience I have w/ M-blocks of that vintage are a
78 F250 4x4 and a 79 F350 4x4. The 78 F250 originally had a 351M w/ no
cats and no air pump. The 79 F350 originally had a 400 w/ no cats but it
had an air pump.

Somewhere around 1979 or 1980, the GVW cut-off for cats was raised from
5500 to 8500 lbs. Starting in 1980, Ford tried to reduce the weight of
it's lighter-duty trucks (F100-250) and most, if not all, non-Supercab
F250s were downrated below the new 8500 lbs cut-off for cats. My truck is
a 1980 F250 w/ 351M w/ both cat and air pump and only 6750 GVW. (Please
don't kick me off the list for being "out-of-range," I still love my
M-block!)

As far as the air pumps go, I have seen air pumps on several 79-83 trucks....


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