FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel

61-79-list-digest Tuesday, May 19 1998 Volume 02 : Number 286

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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel
FTE 61-79 - Great discoveries
FTE 61-79 - Foreigners
Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Bronco/
Re: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel
Re: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel
Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Bronco/
Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Bronco/
FTE 61-79 - '55-'57 Ch*vys
FTE 61-79 - Good-bye and see ya next fall
[none]
RE: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel
RE: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel
Re: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Another list vote
RE: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel
RE: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel

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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:55:18 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel

Just picked up a medium riser 4 bbl intake for my
FE V8 at the F100 Supernationals.

Should I stick with a Ford 4bbl carb and not have
to deal with the kick-down lever problems or go with
the Edelbrock? Or do you prefer something in a Carter
or Holley?

- -Ken

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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:57:10 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Great discoveries

It sounds as if Pigeon Forge was great fun. I wonder if Deacon is my long
lost twin brother. I don't fly either. The fall doesn't hurt a bit until
you hit the ground. With the exception of people with a facination for old
vehicles (like us), I never understood how people who wouldn't be caught in
a car more than 3 years old will step on a 20 something year old airplane.

Pat, the trick to using RTV is twofold. Don't over do it and let it cure
properly before you use whatever you sealed together. Front drive GM c-body
cars with aluminum cased AOD transaxles do not use pan gaskets, only RTV.
The expansion coefficient difference between the steel pan and aluminum
housing disallows anything but something glued to both surfaces maintaining
a seal. Hmmm... aluminum housing and steel pan, hmmm....

Thank you, Bill. My original genuine "1979 Ford Truck F-100 thru F-350
Series Owners Guide" says
"C-4 Automatic Transmission Ford Spec ESW-M2C33-F Type F" and
"C-6 Automatic Transmission Ford Spec ESP-M2C138-CJ or Dexron II"
**You-reek-a!!** as my wife always says after I've been under the truck. I
found the answer. According to my Chilton's #7150, p. 211, C6's to 1976 use
Type F ATF and C6's 1977 and later use Type CJ ATF or Dexron II. I'm
satisfied. I love it when everyone is right.

History lesson: Starting in the 1967 model year, all cars and light trucks
were required by federal law to have dual master cylinders with separate
fluid reservoirs designed in such a manner that if one part failed, the
other wouldn't and you would still have partial braking. It didn't matter
whether you had drums or discs on this part of the law.
When I was in the junk yard, I noticed that some of the earlier Fords had
the proportioning valve mounted on the rear of the engine saddle. I don't
know when they changed to the side frame rail. Sometime this summer I am
going to work on my proportioning valve and I will share what I learn.

You can always find scales to weigh your truck at moving and storage
businesses. Look for the big sign that says Public Scales.

By the way, I've owned pickups with cab mounted gas tanks, side saddle
outside the frame rails dual tanks, and inside the frame rail tanks, along
with countless cars that had the gas tank about 8 inches from the rear
bumper. None of them ever exploded or caught fire. Why? I didn't roll 'em,
didn't bash 'em, drove at or under the speed limit, and stayued out of
everyone else's way. Someone said that all young drivers will have a crash
or a ticket eventually. Wrong!!! My son has been driving for 6 years and
his slate is clean. Don't let the insurance companies give you an excuse to
be careless and cause some innocent family irrepairable harm. Enjoy your
Ford truck in a responsible manner!!!

Ken and Peggy: You are the greatest!!!

- -John

jmlagron

tenet.edu
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI AOD
Macintosh G3/233 minitower (When speed counts, count on Macintosh)
1979 MC (my son is rebellious)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!

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tenet.edu
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI AOD
Macintosh G3/233 minitower (When speed counts, count on Macintosh)
1979 MC under restoration (my son is rebellious)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:31:01 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Bronco/

From: Dean & Liz Becker
>I need to find out what the original Smog/emmssions equipment was on my
78
>Bronco. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I have to take
the
>vehicle into California. I spoke to the CA smog folks and they were no
>help. The Ford Folks are researching, but still can not help.

Forget bringing a post '73 non-California vehicle into California.
I've heard of people that tried to bring vehicles here that have Cal
smog stickers on the engine and still couldn't get away cheaply. Our
smog Nazi's will make you pay to the point it's just not worth doing. If
you can, keep it registered to someone that lives out of state.
Later!

Deacon
deconblu

gte.net
=============================
Nuke the unborn baby whales.
=============================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:25:40 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel

At 09:55 AM 5/19/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Just picked up a medium riser 4 bbl intake for my
>FE V8 at the F100 Supernationals.

Aluminum????

Ken......gettin into the hi-performance end....oooooohhhhh!!!! Awesome!
I just have a lowly low riser. :^|

You go big guy! I can't help you with carb selection because I am partial
to the Autolite 4100's/2100's........Holley's of that era were good performers
if you get it tuned right. Sledog?

Stu
Nuke GM!
visit my homepage at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/stu

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:59:42 -0400
From: "John Miller"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel

> Should I stick with a Ford 4bbl carb and not have
> to deal with the kick-down lever problems or go with
> the Edelbrock? Or do you prefer something in a Carter
> or Holley?

Ken for ease of installation and remaining true to the "oval" I would
recommend finding one of the original Autolite (licensed Holley) 4bbl
carbs. However, for easier made/found consistency and overall performance I
would recommend the Edelbrock or Carter. One thing to note here is that
with any and all carbs on our powerplants an insulating spacer or some type
of heat shield is almost not an option, keeping that fuel and carb cool as
possible is a key to good driveability. Keeping in mind the spacer type of
setup will sacrifice a little low end while slightly boosting top end
power, read torque. There is as much to say about carb choices as there is
about truck choices etc., but for sure whatever choice you make they all
have their good and bad points.

My personal recommendation is the Holley/Autolite

John Miller, FoMoCoNUT

Gibralter.net
96 F-350 Reg Cab XLT, 4x4, 460 w/ A4OD, My Baby "Baloo"
75 F-100 Reg Cab Ranger, 2wd, 360, C6, Daily Driver " Lucy"
and "always" looking ! ! !
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:43:06 -0700
From: "Hogan, Tom"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Bronco/

No No NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!! A common misconception but here in the
great state of the yellow bellied, snail darting tree huggers you DO NOT
have to retrofit a 48 state leagle vehicle to CA emissions. They
bend...er get you another way here. You will pay a one time $300.00
"environmental impact" fee plus the smog inspection fee and the license
fee. After that the inspection is bianual and you pay the anual license
fee. The only emissions equipment your vehicle must have is what it had
originally. Which is why I can drive a truck originally sold in Texas
in 1976 with NO emissions equipment... zero zip nada... and still pass
the sniffer test. When you go in for the emissions test they key in
your vin #. I don't know if this is where the standards for the vehicle
being tested come from or if the technician keys in the type of vehicle
as well but mine has always passed.

My boss bought a car here in CA. Left the state for 11 months came back
and because he had transferred the title to his new home he still had to
pay the $300 when he returned.

There is also a visual inspection at the DMV. When I had my truck done
the person who did it did not come across as a mechanic and only looked
for a sticker on the hood.

If you are planning on keeping the truck for a while then go ahead with
it.

Good luck,
Tom H.

- ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:54:37 -0500
From: "Michael R. Masse"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Bronco/

I believe the only emmisions related hardware on the 78 351M's is the
EGR valve and the fuel vapor canister and return line. No smog pump,
and no cat, but since your moving it to CA, that's an entire new ball of
wax. I don't live in CA, but
from what I've heard it doesn't matter what the original equipment was
if it wasn't a CA truck.
You have to find what the equipment was for a CA truck and throw all of
that junk on.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:05:41 -0700
From: Kurt Albershardt
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Bronco/

At 09:54 PM 5/18/98 -0500, Michael R. Masse wrote:
>I believe the only emmisions related hardware on the 78 351M's is the
>EGR valve and the fuel vapor canister and return line. No smog pump,
>and no cat, but since your moving it to CA, that's an entire new ball of
>wax. I don't live in CA, but
>from what I've heard it doesn't matter what the original equipment was
>if it wasn't a CA truck.
>You have to find what the equipment was for a CA truck and throw all of
>that junk on.

As I remember it, your only duty is to make sure the truck has whatever emissions gear it had when it left the dealer (and keep it in reasonable tune, etc.) If it is a non-CA truck, then the worst thing they will do to you is charge you the dreaded "Smog Impact Fee" assessed on those evil persons who import non-CA vehicles into the Golden State. Last time I checked, it was $300 (one-time fee) and only applied to newer vehicles (not sure of the cutoff date, unfortunately, but a phone call to the CA DMV should remedy that.)

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ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - '55-'57 Ch*vys

>Keith Srb, John (FoMoCoNut), Kim and I watched until 1:30am. Cruising
>was still going strong when we called it a night. Hate to admit it, but
>even some of those 55-57 Ch*vy cars looked good.

'55-'57 Ch*vies and any old C*rvtte shouldn't really count as a Ch*vy.
'64-'65 GTO's shouln't even count as a GM. I like to think of them as
honorary Fords. (pass me the asbestos underwear) I did the frame and
bodyshell side of a frame off on a '55 Ch*vy and on a '65 tri-power Goat,
and helped with the reassembly. They both ended up as show stoppers, and I
enjoyed the experience.(the money too)

I plan to do the "Beast" a little at a time, and help Billy with his '67
F100. (major reconstruction)I hope to do the same to a '66 F100 shorty
someday. I would love to take a well optioned one back to perfection and put
a hot 390 C-6 combo in it. Just make it perfect in every way. Other's on my
wish list. '66 T-bird, '68 Ranger F100 shorty (with the cross flag 390
emblems on the front fenders, sinister black with Boyd's wheels) '63 or '64
Galaxie with a 427 SOHC, just restore the car to perfection then put Henry's
Antichrist under the hood as a BIG surprise. John Vermeersch (high-priest of
Ford Performance)has a '61 Starliner and a Ranch Wagon with a Cammer in it.
If I could have the money and time.......
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr

ldd.net

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:30:27 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Good-bye and see ya next fall

Well ladies and gentleman, the time has come for me to say good bye again.
I am officially offline on May26th at 3 pm central time if anyone wants or
needs to contact me. My truck money is limited therefore I cannot provide a
computer for myself at home during the summer months and the online
services......NOT that you all aren't as important to me as my truck,
but.......complete restos don't come cheap and neither do good quality
computers.

Please save my seat on the list for next fall in August when school fires up
and I am back on line for another exciting 10 months of FTE and Fishin with
Deacon!

Bookmark my homepage so that you can see the progress of my resto throughout
the summer months.........I am sure you will be waiting with baited breath!

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/stu

To all I am thankful and I have enjoyed the time. Dang, Pigeon Forge was so
awesome, I still have dreams of the hot looking pink bikini on the tanned,
er uh ... oops, I mean the 56 cobalt blue sohc effie, Dang, what a show!!!
Sensory overload!

Deacon, I am bringing my paddle to the show next year so be afraid, be very
afraid.
corporal punishment is still allowed in TN!

STU
Nuke GM!

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:37:31 PDT
From: "Kevin Leone"
Subject: [none]

Hellow guys. I've seen a million and one ideas about disks and
conversions for 50's ford's, but nothing about quick and easy, and
possibly inexpensive conversions for a 63' ford with stock front
suspension. Is it possible to convert ford disks from another
application, so as to use salvaged parts? How about Dual master
cylinder, w/booster? I'd like to keep things bolt on if possibe. Any
info, or ideas would help.
Thanks, Kevin
63' f-100 stakebed
y-blocks rule!

______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:43:13 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel

i wasn't going to answer this one, 'cause i know it's the wrong answer!
but a holley like a 750 vacuum sec would be where i would start. i'd take
it to my local carb guru, or some place like the carb shop or BG for a good
working over for higher flow and crisper response. then if you are lucky
it would work great, or after many monthes of

#$^ with it it may work
great. i never have problems with holley's myself, but i know many who
have.

now, if i where you i would keep the one you got, or do you now have a
2bbl?
if the spreadbore fits, it's a good choice. (did i say that??)

the holley 600 4bbl may be a decent choice too if your engine doesn't see
much WOT use. i ran one on a 460 that screamed to 6500, so they will feed
an engine while still giving good response/mileage.

as for the kick down lever - i never had one. i tend to shift it myself
anyway so all but one tranny got a full manual body, usually a reverse
pattern. so i do not know what problems carb changing brings up with the
kick down lever.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Stu Varner[SMTP:varners

ten-nash.ten.k12.tn.us]
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 5:25 AM
To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel

At 09:55 AM 5/19/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Just picked up a medium riser 4 bbl intake for my
>FE V8 at the F100 Supernationals.

Aluminum????

Ken......gettin into the hi-performance end....oooooohhhhh!!!! Awesome!
I just have a lowly low riser. :^|

You go big guy! I can't help you with carb selection because I am partial
to the Autolite 4100's/2100's........Holley's of that era were good
performers
if you get it tuned right. Sledog?

Stu
Nuke GM!
visit my homepage at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/stu

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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:00:00 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel

> From: Sleddog
> Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel
> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:43:13 -0400

> as for the kick down lever - i never had one. i tend to shift it
> myself anyway so all but one tranny got a full manual body, usually
> a reverse pattern. so i do not know what problems carb changing
> brings up with the kick down lever.

As I recall, the tranny will still kick down at lower speeds but not
at highway speeds so if you need it for passing the kickdown lever is
nice to have. Seems like I've had them kick down as high as 45 or so
without it but with a 460 I'd rather it didn't kick down anyway most
of the time. Once you get near 50 or so it's in it's torque band in
high gear and pulls like a freight train anyway even with 2.75 gears
:-)

As I keep saying, if you have to change your manifold and economy is
important as well as decent performance then why not go for the best
combination ever invented and get the Rochester and Offy setup?

If all you care about is raw power then get a predator or
dominator........:-) Not much in between IMHO :-) (Well, there's
always EFI :-))

Most carbs can be fiddled with to work with a kick down lever of some
kind and most of edlebrocks have this option including the rochesters
as I recall. It's really a pretty simple dohicky :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:29:55 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel

Gary, 78 BBB wrote:

> > From: Sleddog
> > Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel
> > Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:43:13 -0400
>
>
> As I keep saying, if you have to change your manifold and economy is
> important as well as decent performance then why not go for the best
> combination ever invented and get the Rochester and Offy setup?

For whatever it's worth, awhile back I bought a 4100 autolite carburetor
which I think I will like better than my Holley, and recently found a
list member with a Offenhauser 360 degree dual plane manifold. I also am
in the process of buying a set of 429 Police Interceptor heads which have
the small 429 cobustion chambers, small runners for low end torque and
larger than stock intake and exhaust valves. Next winter, after I smog it,
I'm going to pull the motor and install the heads, intake and carb.

Can't wait to try this combination.

Gary/Sleddog; what do you think about this combo?

Thanks
John

78 F250 4X4 Supercab
67 GT500

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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:11:04 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Another list vote

As requested several times over the last few months, a vote
to start a performance oriented list has been added to the
voting center on the web site. This list would be for
discussion of performance, hot-rod and street-rod issues for
all years and models of Ford trucks. This list will be
dedicated to the pursuit of power!

Point your browser to the main web site and click on "voting".
Voting expires in two weeks. If passed, this new list would
be administered by list member Keith Srb, who has volunteered
to take on the job.

Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:17:31 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel

this sounds like a wonderful setup - the heads are the right ones for a
street/strip or performance street engine. they will flow like almost no
other combo at valve lifts up to what you would normally use for this kind
of engine. they still lack some top, but a round guess would be at
.600-.625 lift or so. with a good port job these will flow enough for
maybe 650 hp, no nitrous, and only 460 cubes. but, you would need to get
the rpm band into the 6500 or more range i think for that. for more milder
engines, the exellant intake port with the 2.19 or 2.25 valve is a real
good combo so like i said you have the right heads!

could tell you more, but i am swamped with work this week. if you have any
specific questions, i'd like to give 'em shot tho!

not too familiar with the offy 2 plane, but a few hours spent on the intake
will work wonders to any engine with a grinder.

what CR you looking for? what size cam?

does anyone know the flow rating of the 4100 carb?

sleddog
- ----------
From: John MacNamara[SMTP:JohnMcn

micom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 1:29 PM
To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Recommend a 4 barrel

For whatever it's worth, awhile back I bought a 4100 autolite carburetor
which I think I will like better than my Holley, and recently found a
list member with a Offenhauser 360 degree dual plane manifold. I also am
in the process of buying a set of 429 Police Interceptor heads which have
the small 429 cobustion chambers, small runners for low end torque and
larger than stock intake and exhaust valves. Next winter, after I smog it,
I'm going to pull the motor and install the heads, intake and carb.

Can't wait to try this combination.

Gary/Sleddog; what do you think about this combo?

Thanks
John

78 F250 4X4 Supercab
67 GT500

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