61-79-list-digest Friday, May 15 1998 Volume 02 : Number 278



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - RE: Need Advise/Trans fluid change
FTE 61-79 - Ford Trucks (was Split wood, Politics, etc.)
FTE 61-79 - Got It!(radiator)
Re: FTE 61-79 - slow days
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Need Advise/Trans fluid change
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Need Advise/Trans fluid change
Re: FTE 61-79 - Ford Trucks (was Split wood, Politics, etc.)
FTE 61-79 - Re: Vapor lock
FTE 61-79 - Vapor Lock or what?
Re: FTE 61-79 - 1966 Emergency Brake - Pull Lever or Pedal?
Re: FTE 61-79 - body mounts
FTE 61-79 - Washer Fluid Box
FTE 61-79 - Re:re:Brains
Re: FTE 61-79 - Balanced and Blueprinted
Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Tires

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:09:15 -0400
From: DC Beatty
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Need Advise/Trans fluid change

John. =


It's like changing oil only messier. Use type F fluid, and make sure the
gasket looks like the right one before you start. You either have an FMX =
or
a C6. My FMX has the dipstick tube screwed into the side of the pan, so
draining it is much less sloppy. =


What I always do is loosen a couple of bolts on one corner. Then, let it
drain out a bit, and then start loosening the others with the expectation=

that fluid is going to slop out when you do. Don't have your face right
there close :). Have a big catch pan. Also, remember to drain the
converter. It holds quite a bit of fluid. There is a drain plug in the
front of it. You may have to ground the coil and bump the motor over with=

the starter to get the drain plug to line up with the access door in the
front of the tranny. If I remember right the total capacity is 10 to 12
quarts for everything.

When you get the pan off, don't turn it over and dump it right away. You'=
ll
want to see if there are any metal chunks in there. A really small amount=

of really small metal flakes is generally ok, but if you have metal chunk=
s
or something in there it is an indication of bad things. The fluid color
should be red, though it can be sort of cloudy because of friction materi=
al
wear. =


Tighten the bolts like you were trying to flatten the pan out from the
middle to the edge. I hope this makes sense. Just snug them up tight and =
it
should be ok. =


When you go to refill it, dump 4 or 5 quarts in, start the motor, then du=
mp
more in, checking the fluid level between quarts. Don't overfill it. =


I'm not sure what's going on with the shifting problem. The fluid change
*may* take care of it. Dextron has more detergent in it than type F, so
maybe it dislodged some crap in there and it's jamming the governor or on=
e
of the shift valves or something. =


Good luck and wear old clothes :)

Drew Beatty
1967 F100 352 (soon to be 390)
1974 Maverick 302


From: "Hammell, John"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Need Advise/Trans fluid change

I am about to challange my limited mechanical skills and try to change
my tranny fluid this weekend in my 67 F250 Camper Special. I believe
that it's a C6 by looking at the shape of the pan, but according to the
Red book and the VIN it's supposed to be a C4. Anyway, I got the screen
and gasket kits for both so I'm not stuck. I've been told that I should
keep the fluid I drain out in case the trans dosen't like the new stuff.
I realize I should only use TYPE F, and that's one of the reason's I'm
changing it, because I found out, looking through some of the receipts
that the previous owner gave me when I brought the truck, I am running
Dextron/Mercon ? through it! Could that also be the reason that she
dosen't want to shift in the morning before she goes about 4-5 miles??
What should I look for when dropping the pan as far as damage or any
type of excessive wear? Is that something I'll even be able to see from
that view?
Also, do the bolts on the pan have to be torqued to a specific # or can
I just tighten them up in any order??
Is changing the tranny fluid as simple as changing the oil??
Any advise or guidence would be much appreciated!!!!!!

J. Hammell
67 F250 Camper Special 352 V8
83 F150 300 Inline 6(only 72,7000+ orig.miles-trying to find a good home
for her!!!)
Hammej01 imsint.com>>>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 14:13:03 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Ford Trucks (was Split wood, Politics, etc.)

>From: Dennis Pearson
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Split wood
>
>Did I accidentally stumble into that darn Wood Splitters'
>LIST-SERV again?
>
>Is this wood for a Ford Truck bed?
>
>
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Politics, etc [Was Charging Systems]
>
>ANd now I've somehow gone into the Hair Dresser's LIST_SERV.
>

Yo Dennis:

If you have the proper metaphysical frame of mind (or was that state of
mind?), you can see how Everything in the Universe is related to Ford
trucks.

For example, all the protons, electrons, and quarks in a Ford truck were at
one time (billions and billions of years ago) part of another planet in
another solar system in another galaxie far, far away in some remote corner
of the universe quite remote from the location of the Earth now. That
planet's sun grew to a red giant during its waning years and enveloped that
planet, vaporizing it and disolving all those atoms into disassociated
protons and electrons in its plasmic stew, then collapsed in on itself and
exploded in a supernova cataclysm, spewing forth all those protons and
electrons to be wafted across the universe on the cosmic winds to our own
little corner of the universe, one day to be absorbed into the cooling
clumps that eventually became asteroids, and meteorites, and moons, and
planets and finally came to become the atoms that were harvested from the
bowels of our own Earth and smelted and forged by Uncle Henry's sons and
daughters and lovingly shaped with their own hands into the metal that
would ultimately become our Ford trucks, and... well... you see, it really
is All related to Ford trucks.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 20:48:00 +0200
From: "Hammell, John"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Got It!(radiator)

Randy,Steve and Gary, Thanks much for the info. In the mean time I ordered
one from a wholesaler called Carolina's, (brother works at local auto parts
store, but of course they sent the wrong one!) Yes, it is a 4 row Steve, and
I ended up going back to the guy who attempted to repair the old one. I
ordered it through him yesterday, even took it back to him so he could make
sure to get the correct one! Anyway, thanks for all your help again, and if
I get the tranny fluid changed AND the radiator in, well... I just
might....well I've been reading about those Duraspark ignition systems and
.... this stuff can get addictive can't it??!!!

J. Hammell
67 F250 Camper Special 352 V8
83 F150 300 Inline 6(only 72,7000+ orig.miles-trying to find a good home
for her!!!)
Hammej01 imsint.com
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:24:48 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - slow days

> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 14:01:53 -0500
> From: "John LaGrone"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - slow days

> Gary, if you wait for a slow day on this list, we'll never hear how
> everything turns out.
>
> For John Hammell: Watch out for that tranny fluid. I insisted
> earlier that my 79 C6 uses Dexron II. My truck wouldn't back up

Ford trannys have NEVER used Dextron II but the new Dextron III is
supposed to meet the new ford Mercon spec and so is theoretically
backward compatible. I haven't tried it yet myself but that's what I
put in my hoist hydraulic system the other day so I have some spare
qts lying around.........

> around the pan. Loosen it all around, then loosen it so that one of
> the back corners lowers first. Be patient as you do this. If you

You only need to barely loosen most of the bolts and the ones you
want it to drain from you loosen a bit more and "ease" it loose with
a "large" pan under it. Don't wear your Sunday go to meeting shirt
when you do this :-(

> I still have my hair and my teeth, but my pancreas doesn't work too
> well.

Sorry to hear that John, my wife's been insulin dependent for many
years so I feel for you. So far we're seldom sick at the same time
so one of us is usually available to help the other :-) My pancreas
still works as designed fortunately, my wife says I couldn't handle
it. Maybe she's right :-(

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:26:52 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Need Advise/Trans fluid change

> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:09:15 -0400
> From: DC Beatty
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Need Advise/Trans fluid change
> When you go to refill it, dump 4 or 5 quarts in, start the motor,
> then dump more in, checking the fluid level between quarts. Don't
> overfill it.

Make sure it's in park or neutral when you do this. I once jumped a
bad start neutral switch so I could get the thing together and
started pouring fluid in with engine running only to find out I had a
reverse leverage shift lever in this tranny and it was actually in
low gear the whole time! Course I guess you know the engine was not
idling well so I kept reving it while standing in front of the
truck..................not a pretty picture!

Fortunately it won't go till there's enough juice and then it usually
only rocks a bit when the juice gets high enough to gurgle a bit
which is what tipped me off to the problem before I ran myself over
:-)

Didn't have a clue that C-6's came with two shift patterns, 180 out
depending on application. Scary huh?

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:29:25 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Need Advise/Trans fluid change

One other thing you might want to look into is adding an aftermarket drain
plug kit to your trans pan while you've got it off. B&M makes it, P.A.W.
sells them for about $6 and they make changing ATF much easier. Most
aftermarket pans come with a drain plug in them.
- ----------
> From: DC Beatty
> To: 'Ford Truck List'
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Need Advise/Trans fluid change
> Date: Friday, May 15, 1998 1:09 PM
>
> John.
>
> It's like changing oil only messier. Use type F fluid, and make sure the
> gasket looks like the right one before you start. You either have an FMX
or
> a C6. My FMX has the dipstick tube screwed into the side of the pan, so
> draining it is much less sloppy.
>
> What I always do is loosen a couple of bolts on one corner. Then, let it
> drain out a bit, and then start loosening the others with the expectation
> that fluid is going to slop out when you do. Don't have your face right
> there close :). Have a big catch pan. Also, remember to drain the
> converter. It holds quite a bit of fluid. There is a drain plug in the
> front of it. You may have to ground the coil and bump the motor over with
> the starter to get the drain plug to line up with the access door in the
> front of the tranny. If I remember right the total capacity is 10 to 12
> quarts for everything.
>
> When you get the pan off, don't turn it over and dump it right away.
You'll
> want to see if there are any metal chunks in there. A really small amount
> of really small metal flakes is generally ok, but if you have metal
chunks
> or something in there it is an indication of bad things. The fluid color
> should be red, though it can be sort of cloudy because of friction
material
> wear.
>
> Tighten the bolts like you were trying to flatten the pan out from the
> middle to the edge. I hope this makes sense. Just snug them up tight and
it
> should be ok.
>
> When you go to refill it, dump 4 or 5 quarts in, start the motor, then
dump
> more in, checking the fluid level between quarts. Don't overfill it.
>
> I'm not sure what's going on with the shifting problem. The fluid change
> *may* take care of it. Dextron has more detergent in it than type F, so
> maybe it dislodged some crap in there and it's jamming the governor or
one
> of the shift valves or something.
>
> Good luck and wear old clothes :)

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:35:38 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Ford Trucks (was Split wood, Politics, etc.)

Dave, that ticking noise you've been hearing is from an exhaust leak that
has evidently been filling the cab of your truck. Please get that fixed,
'kay? ;-)

- ----------
> From: Dave Resch
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Ford Trucks (was Split wood, Politics, etc.)
> Date: Friday, May 15, 1998 1:13 PM
>
> Yo Dennis:
>
> If you have the proper metaphysical frame of mind (or was that state of
> mind?), you can see how Everything in the Universe is related to Ford
> trucks.
>
> For example, all the protons, electrons, and quarks in a Ford truck were
at
> one time (billions and billions of years ago) part of another planet in
> another solar system in another galaxie far, far away in some remote
corner
> of the universe quite remote from the location of the Earth now. That
> planet's sun grew to a red giant during its waning years and enveloped
that
> planet, vaporizing it and disolving all those atoms into disassociated
> protons and electrons in its plasmic stew, then collapsed in on itself
and
> exploded in a supernova cataclysm, spewing forth all those protons and
> electrons to be wafted across the universe on the cosmic winds to our own
> little corner of the universe, one day to be absorbed into the cooling
> clumps that eventually became asteroids, and meteorites, and moons, and
> planets and finally came to become the atoms that were harvested from the
> bowels of our own Earth and smelted and forged by Uncle Henry's sons and
> daughters and lovingly shaped with their own hands into the metal that
> would ultimately become our Ford trucks, and... well... you see, it
really
> is All related to Ford trucks.
>
> Dave R. (M-block devotee)
>

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:32:40 -0500
From: "kingw"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Vapor lock

Don,
Are you sure your problem is vapor lock? My
68 F100 (360) does the same thing, but b/c it
floods when it is warm. If I let the truck sit while
warm, for more than 3 or 4 minutes, the carb
will be flooded when I restart it. The problem gets
worse during the warmer weather.
My solution (for now), is to push the gas pedal to
the floor (and hold it there), while I start the truck
(just as if it were flooded...which it is).

There was some discussion about this problem on
the list a while back. Some people suggested that
it was b/c the fuel pump was holding too much pressure
in the fuel line (between the pump and carb), and thus
forcing gas into the carb when the engine wasn't
running. The suggested solution was to install a fuel
pressure regulator, to hold the line pressure down.
I am going to replace the carb when I get the time.

Perhaps you could peek into the carb one day after its
been sitting for a while, and see if it is gassy (*burp*).

Bill
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:38:06 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Vapor Lock or what?

> Anyone got any good ideas for curing vapor lock? I've got a 65 f250
>with a 75 351W running a Motorcraft 2150 carb and stock egr style
>intake. I've got a Felpro .5" plastic spacer over the EGR plate, also
>have an aftermarket 14" aircleaner that gives lots of room around the
>carb. The old beast start's great when cold, but when hot, if I let it
>sit more that a couple of minutes, I need to crank it over about 30
>seconds before it finally fires up, usually with lots of black smoke and
>a miss that goes away almost immediately. I assume this is happening
>because the gas is boiling out of the carburetor bowl into the intake
>ports?
>
Gary's right, this is percolation, not vapor lock. Vapor lock is when the
fuel boils in the line which forms an air pocket that is expanding due to
heat which blocks fuel flow to the carb. That means you run out of gas.
You have too much gas (black smoke). You usually need a metal spacer that
sticks out of the sides of the carb, the more the better. It needs to be
in direct contact with the manifold with a rubber or plastic spacer between
the metal plate and the carb. This will absorb the heat from the manifold
and release it to the surrounding air via the portion that is out in the
open. Generally speaking, this is a much more common problem on GM's,
especially older Chevies, than on Fords, but I don't know why.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:09:08 EDT
From: OldTrux
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 1966 Emergency Brake - Pull Lever or Pedal?

In a message dated 98-05-13 10:47:20 EDT, you write:


F100 - I had assumed it was a pedal, however people are mentioning it
might be a pull lever. - Also, where is it located? - >>

It is definately a pull handle to the left of the steering column. Cable exits
through fire wall and back 2 screws bolt to fire wall. You will find a Mickey
Mouse pattern formed by the three holes. o o .
O

There are also 2 holes in the lower lip of the dash where the front handle
bracket bolts up. You can make the rear cables from a late model F150 fit
wilth little or no modification.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:13:32 EDT
From: OldTrux
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - body mounts

In a message dated 98-05-14 13:31:12 EDT, you write:


cheaper than Ford, >>

Try J>C> Whitney (WWW. JCWHITNEY.COM)?
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 22:24:38 GMT
From: wayside cyberhighway.net (Rob Patelke)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Washer Fluid Box

The fluid reservoir on my '78 is broken; the box from my '71 looks as
though it might be a perfect match, but I don't really want to =
cannibalize
it.
Before I go looking at the bone-yard, do any of you know if there were
there any other Ford products that used the same box/pump setup?

Thanks
Rob
'71 F100, 360 4Spd "The Old One"
'78 F250, 4X4 400 C6 "The Brick"
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:23:09 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re:re:Brains

>no brain surgery -- i usually chop the heads off before i do an experiment
>;)

Owwwwwwwwwwwwwwch!!!!!!!!!
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net

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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:36:43 -0600
From: Ryan Dorman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Balanced and Blueprinted

What I meant was : In terms that people with limited machinest/engine
knowledge could understand..(not everyone is experienced enough with
engines to understand the barage of technical terms.)

Gary, 78 BBB wrote:

> > Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 15:13:13 -0600
> > From: Ryan Dorman
> > Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Balanced and Blueprinted
>
> > Now in terms that most people can understand..
> > >
> > > All mechanical parts have tolerances but are designed to work
> > > optimally at a specific dimension which is usually called the
>
> Whatdayamean??? I understood it perfectly :-)
>
> 78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
> 78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
> 78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
>
> -- Gary --
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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> "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the message body.
> =======================================================================



- --
KC7YPJ, Ryan Dorman
QTH: Victor ID, grid# DN431c
ICQ #3834602
kc7ypj pdt.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/5496


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:44:42 -0600
From: Ryan Dorman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?

Interesting, the big block mounts we bought at Rush Auto Parts in Idaho Falls
Idaho, were bolt in items??? but hey the 7 people(3 Bronco's,4 F-150's) that
now have 460/429's in thier trucks are buying tune-up parts for 460/429's and
putting them on 400's...

Gary, 78 BBB wrote:

> > Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:24:22 -0600
> > From: Ryan Dorman
> > Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?
>
> > > > though you'll need things like motor mounts (L&L
> > > > has' em with a lifetime warranty for $100)
> > >
> > > $100??? Your local parts house has them for around $40 (same
> > > warranty,same mount, differant paint)
>
> > > "But hey, Thats just my oppinion. I could be wrong"
>
> Sorry, but you are wrong, the mounts he was talking about are "swap"
> mounts that allow you to use the original frame bracket but mount a
> different engine which was never used in that application from the
> factory. You won't find that kind of mount at auto parts unless they
> happen to cater to that crowd and then you'll pay $99 like the rest
> of us :-)
>
> Now............If I'm wrong, give me the phone number of the place so
> I can order a few hundred sets and retire on the profits.......:-)
> If I'd known about L&L 10 years ago I would have bought their mounts
> instead of reinventing the wheel to mount my 460 in my van :-)
>
> 78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
> 78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
> 78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
>
> -- Gary --
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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> =======================================================================



- --
KC7YPJ, Ryan Dorman
QTH: Victor ID, grid# DN431c
ICQ #3834602
kc7ypj pdt.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/5496


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:04:59 -0600
From: Ryan Dorman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Tires

BFG makes a good tire but they have a tendency to dig holes, winter we run
either big-o big foot mt's or buckshot mudders (studded of course). In the
spring we tend to run the most aggressive
tire available (ie, TSL BOGGERS or SWAMPERS) summer/fall usually involves
slightly less aggressive tires ( BFG mud terrains,les shwab Wild Cat RVT's,
Dick Cepeck Mud Terrains)

How aggressive a tire you run depends on where your gonna go, trust me
aggresive tread is good for more than just mud. I'm on search and rescue so
my Bronco runs very aggressive tires year round.(tread can make the
differance between finding someone & them spending another night lost..)

It's all subjective, depending on your area, the amount of time spent
off-road, and how much ride quality your willing to sacrifice for off-road
performance...

In my area I dont recomend running anything less than a mud terrain type
tire, you never know when youl need them...

Gary, 78 BBB wrote:

> > From: "Bill Beyer"
> > Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brains
> > Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:53:31 -0700
>
> > Mandatory FTC: Baby needs new shoes. Anybody got some
> > recommendations for 33X12.5-16.5s for a 4X4 daily driver? It does
> > see a fair bit of off road time.
>
> I can tell you my Sears Trail Handlers were very quiet when I got
> them but now with all the cupping etc. they are NOISY, VERY NOISY!!!
> And I don't like it one bit! My truck stays on the road except when
> I go off road by accident so I don't want the noise. I'd get slicks
> if they weren't so bad on wet pavement :-)
>
> I don't see why a person really needs all that tread on the highway
> or even off if mud isn't in the picture? Mud isn't much of a problem
> for me so "Smooooooooooooth" is in and "Roughhhhhhhhh" is out :-)
>
> Now, somebody help us both out here? The shop I go to handles Cooper
> and Dean tires but can get others. I like the Coopers on my Pickup
> but they're just the 235 75 15's. Don't know if they even make them
> in the 33's but I suspect they would be noisy if they did since
> there's just a hint of whine even with the smaller ones.
>
> Some of those MT's (mickey thompson's) in the Cepek catalog (or was
> that JCW) look like they'd be pretty quiet?
>
> I wonder if you got the Goodyear rain masters and cut some lugs into
> them................:-)
>
> 78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
> 78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
> 78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
>
> -- Gary --
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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