61-79-list-digest Friday, May 15 1998 Volume 02 : Number 277



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

(Fwd) Re: FTE 61-79 - Power Brake swap
(Fwd) Re: FTE 61-79 - Need Advise/Trans fluid change
Re: FTE 61-79 - FW: Help Needed!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Brains
Re: FTE 61-79 - Friendship and FEs
Re: FTE 61-79 - Split wood
RE: (Fwd) Re: FTE 61-79 - Need Advise/Trans fluid change
FTE 61-79 - Vapor lock
FTE 61-79 - new shoes was:RE: - Brains
Re: FTE 61-79 - Tires
Re: FTE 61-79 - Driveline Angles
Re: FTE 61-79 - Vapor lock
Re: FTE 61-79 - Body Mounts
FTE 61-79 - Correct trans & case lube
FTE 61-79 - slow days
Re: FTE 61-79 - Correct trans & case lube
FTE 61-79 - Freeze plugs
FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock Intake--Steve D.
Re: FTE 61-79 - Correct trans & case lube
Re: FTE 61-79 - Freeze plugs

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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:24:18 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: (Fwd) Re: FTE 61-79 - Power Brake swap

> From: BJGR47D prodigy.com (MR RYAN STACK)
> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 00:26:44, -0500
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Power Brake swap

> I have a 72' Bronco with manual brakes. The master cylinder needs
> replaced. I was wondering if it is possible to swap in a power
> brake unit from a full size Bronco, or a pickup If it is then I
> would like to know how it might be done, and what problems I might
> run into.

There are differences in the way the pedal interfaces with the MC so
you need to investigate the mechanisms and do some measuring to be
sure they will be compatible. The bronco has a cantilever between the
pedal and MC so there is a mechanical advantage (against the driver)
and the push pin is not lined up with the center of the MC. If the
system you install has the same mechanism between the pedal and MC it
should bolt right up, if not you may be able to drill some new holes
and relocate it if there's room.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:25:14 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: (Fwd) Re: FTE 61-79 - Need Advise/Trans fluid change

> From: "Hammell, John"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Need Advise/Trans fluid change
> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:20:00 -0400

> I am about to challange my limited mechanical skills and try to
> change my tranny fluid this weekend in my 67 F250 Camper Special. I
> believe that it's a C6 by looking at the shape of the pan, but

C-6 has integral bellhousing, C-4 has bolted on bell housing and is
smaller in size as well. FMX is cast iron, at least part of it is.

> trans dosen't like the new stuff. I realize I should only use TYPE
> F, and that's one of the reason's I'm changing it, because I found

Mercon (Dextron III) is the new ford standard and is supposed to be
backward compatible but type F will probably let the clutches grab a
little better. I haven't tried it yet but they say it's supposed to
be ok.

> What should I
> look for when dropping the pan as far as damage or any type of
> excessive wear?

You can't see any of the working parts of the tranny from there but
you can look in the pan for signs of broken parts or particles of
clutch etc. which indicate some wear. Some is normal, lots is
probably a bad sign.

> Also, do the bolts on the pan have to be torqued to a specific
> # or can I just tighten them up in any order?? Is changing the
> tranny fluid as simple as changing the oil??

Evenly by what ever means and don't over tighten them so that the pan
lip is deformed. You can put more pressure on the bolts if you put
flat washers under the heads (if there's room). Place the pan (lip) on
a flat surface and lightly tap the holes back flat before installing
it. You should do this with any sheet metal pan or valve cover to
ensure even sealing etc..

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:49:32 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FW: Help Needed!

> From: sdelanty sonic.net
> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:21:42 -0700
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FW: Help Needed!

> Don't they have the same core size (26"w x 20"h) but the camp
> special is 4-row instead of 3?

If it's 26" wide then you can get this in several flavors including
19" long and 24" long cuz that's what I have in my bronco (78) and
just about any number of tubes you want :-) I have a feeling the
ford trucks were the same for a long time. Where you sometimes see a
difference is between the vans and pickups etc.. I ran into this
when I put my van radiator into the pickup. I had to trim the frame
to make it fit. (but it did fit eventually :-))

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:53:31 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brains

D'OH! (Homer Simpson impression. Sorry it just seemed to fit)

Mandatory FTC: Baby needs new shoes. Anybody got some recommendations for
33X12.5-16.5s for a 4X4 daily driver? It does see a fair bit of off road
time.

- ----------
> From: CLARE WATERMAN
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brains
> Date: Friday, May 15, 1998 6:12 AM
>
>
> no brain surgery -- i usually chop the heads off before i do an
experiment
> ;)
>

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:52:15 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Friendship and FEs

> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:20:08 -0500
> From: "John LaGrone"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Friendship and FEs

> I have some tire questions. My 79 F150 has the original steel
> wheels, five lug 15". I currently have P235/75 passenger car tires
> all around. Does anyone know how wide my wheels are? I think I want
> to put P205/70s on the front and something like P245/70s or 65s on
> the back. Will they work on my stock wheels? Any suggestions or
> alternatives? This is 99.9% a street use truck.

I have a stack of rims out back. I'll try to remember to measure
them tonight when I get home. (don't count on it tho, I'm so absent
minded it's scary) but I think they're 6", not sure.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:59:14 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Split wood

No actually you stumbled on the "2OCRASWBITGOD" list-serv. That's 2 old
codgers reminiscing about splitting wood back in the good old days. You
know back when they had wood burning cats, walked to school 4 miles in the
snow, barefoot, uphill both ways, etc. ;-)

- ----------
> From: Dennis Pearson
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Split wood
> Date: Friday, May 15, 1998 7:02 AM
>
> Did I accidentally stumble into that darn Wood Splitters' LIST-SERV
again?
>
> Is this wood for a Ford Truck bed?
>

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:09:01 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: (Fwd) Re: FTE 61-79 - Need Advise/Trans fluid change

be careful not to get a faceful of ATF! actually dropping the pan itself
is the hardest part IMHO. it is a dirty job and not really easy to not
spill ATF. usually it sloshes around, out the sides, and many times makes
quite a mess.
just a warning. . .

sleddog


> From: "Hammell, John"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Need Advise/Trans fluid change
> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:20:00 -0400

> I am about to challange my limited mechanical skills and try to
> change my tranny fluid this weekend in my 67 F250 Camper Special. I
> believe that it's a C6 by looking at the shape of the pan, but


> Also, do the bolts on the pan have to be torqued to a specific
> # or can I just tighten them up in any order?? Is changing the
> tranny fluid as simple as changing the oil??




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:10:18 -0500
From: "Don Yerhot"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Vapor lock

Anyone got any good ideas for curing vapor lock? I've got a 65 f250
with a 75 351W running a Motorcraft 2150 carb and stock egr style
intake. I've got a Felpro .5" plastic spacer over the EGR plate, also
have an aftermarket 14" aircleaner that gives lots of room around the
carb. The old beast start's great when cold, but when hot, if I let it
sit more that a couple of minutes, I need to crank it over about 30
seconds before it finally fires up, usually with lots of black smoke and
a miss that goes away almost immediately. I assume this is happening
because the gas is boiling out of the carburetor bowl into the intake
ports?

Don
Richfield, MN
65 F250

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:18:45 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: FTE 61-79 - new shoes was:RE: - Brains

my personal favorite for what you descibe is the BFG all terrain. a
pretty aggresive tire with good road manners and they last well. if you
live in a area that has heavy winter snows etc, they work very well in
winter. only really REALLY deep mud has ever stopped mine!

i had a set of OEM goodyear all terrains and they were the absolute worst
tire i ever owned, car or truck!!!

sleddog

- ----------
From: Bill Beyer[SMTP:bbeyer pacifier.com]
Sent: Friday, May 15, 1998 12:53 PM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brains

D'OH! (Homer Simpson impression. Sorry it just seemed to fit)

Mandatory FTC: Baby needs new shoes. Anybody got some recommendations for
33X12.5-16.5s for a 4X4 daily driver? It does see a fair bit of off road
time.



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:19:53 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Tires

> From: "Bill Beyer"
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brains
> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:53:31 -0700

> Mandatory FTC: Baby needs new shoes. Anybody got some
> recommendations for 33X12.5-16.5s for a 4X4 daily driver? It does
> see a fair bit of off road time.

I can tell you my Sears Trail Handlers were very quiet when I got
them but now with all the cupping etc. they are NOISY, VERY NOISY!!!
And I don't like it one bit! My truck stays on the road except when
I go off road by accident so I don't want the noise. I'd get slicks
if they weren't so bad on wet pavement :-)

I don't see why a person really needs all that tread on the highway
or even off if mud isn't in the picture? Mud isn't much of a problem
for me so "Smooooooooooooth" is in and "Roughhhhhhhhh" is out :-)

Now, somebody help us both out here? The shop I go to handles Cooper
and Dean tires but can get others. I like the Coopers on my Pickup
but they're just the 235 75 15's. Don't know if they even make them
in the 33's but I suspect they would be noisy if they did since
there's just a hint of whine even with the smaller ones.

Some of those MT's (mickey thompson's) in the Cepek catalog (or was
that JCW) look like they'd be pretty quiet?

I wonder if you got the Goodyear rain masters and cut some lugs into
them................:-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:26:19 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Driveline Angles

> From: BDIJXS
> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 22:06:14 EDT
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Driveline Angles

> I'm running an approximate 3-1/2" lift, and I read somewhere that
> the angle on the upper U-joint (in my case, between the jack shaft
> and the rear driveline) should be the same angle as that on the
> lower U-joint between the driveline and the pinion shaft....I've
> seen some lift jobs where they "rotated" the rear axle with wedge
> shims, etc. until that lower angle was about zero, but the upper one
> still relatively large....I understand that this configuration
> applies extra stress on the U-joints, wearing them out faster....

The site mentioned by someone else has some info on this but the
main reason the input and output needs to be parallel is to reduce
vibration due to phasing. If you have a double cardan then the rear
or pinion ujoint should be as straight (pinion should be on the drive
shaft axis) as possible for the same reason and to reduce wear on the
ujoint.

The first arrangement will wear the joints faster than a car
arrangement but will last longer than otherwise due to less vibration
and will allow the tranny and rear end to live longer as well.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:53:32 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Vapor lock

> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:10:18 -0500
> From: "Don Yerhot"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Vapor lock

> The old beast start's great when cold, but when
> hot, if I let it sit more that a couple of minutes, I need to crank
> it over about 30 seconds before it finally fires up, usually with
> lots of black smoke and a miss that goes away almost immediately. I
> assume this is happening because the gas is boiling out of the
> carburetor bowl into the intake ports?

I guess this can be called vapor lock but I generally call it
"Percolation". I had a glass filter on my 460 in the van and when it
died on me one very hot day I opened the hood to see the gas boiling
in the filter only a few inches away from the carb! Now that's hot
and that more perfectly personifies vapor lock to me but they are
both caused by the same problem, engine heat "soaking" into the
surounding parts sufficient to boil the fuel away. My bronco does
it, my pickup does it and my van did it too.

The cures I've heard (but not tried yet) are the 1" rubber spacer
under the carb or letting it idle for one minute before shutting it
off to cool the engine down. Used to do that with my turbo for a
different reason.The 1" spacer I tried was an open spacer and didn't
work very well for me. I've heard the 4 hole spacers work better for
low end and drivability so keep that in mind if you try a different
one.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 11:34:45 -0700
From: Marko Maryniak
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Body Mounts

At 06:40 PM 14/05/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Hey OX,
>
>I mentioned something a long time ago about getting polyurethane body mounts
>from JCW. I just looked up your application = $79 for the set....
>
>I bought a set of these and they seem to work great....
>
>Don't know about actual rubber ones...
>
>By the way, do you know if 1/2-ton and 3/4-ton U-joints are the same?
>
>Colorado Jeff


I got an Energy Suspension set for my 67 4x4. $79 (Canadian!).

marko in vancouver
marko helix.net

(yes, I live and lurk)

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 11:34:33 -0700
From: Marko Maryniak
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Correct trans & case lube

I have been curious about the following, since I am now rebuilding my
transfer case. (By the way, if you need parts for your NP 205 like the
thrust washers, esp for the input shaft, you can only get them from D*dge.
Ford no longer stocks them, and GM, well, ask Stu what should be done with
those guys. If you need part numbers, email me privately and I will give
you all you need to know)

Altho Steve's T-18 may go around marking its territory with 90W gear oil,
my genuine 67 Ford and Mercury Centennial Edition Truck Owner's Manual
(okay, enough bragging) says that for the front and rear diffs you shud use
80W90, and for the tranny and for the transfer case, you shud use 50W
motor oil! Really!

I wonder how this wud work, and if it wud cut down on the whine at all.

By the way, my repro FoMoCo lube stickers from Jim Osborn also say to use
50W.

Wud somebody in the know please let me know what to do, before I go filling
my newly rebuilt and painted transfer case with the wrong liquid.


Thanks!


marko in vancouver
marko helix.net

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 14:01:53 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - slow days

Gary, if you wait for a slow day on this list, we'll never hear how
everything turns out.

For John Hammell: Watch out for that tranny fluid. I insisted earlier that
my 79 C6 uses Dexron II. My truck wouldn't back up under a load because
someone (my older but not wiser sister) had poured Ford ATF down its
gullet. I looked up the ATF specs in the owner's manual and matched it to
the can or bottle. I know I have the Right Stuff. A 67 C6 or C4 could use
Ford ATF. Ask someone who knows for sure. Guys? I do know one thing for
sure, don't put the wrong kind in it. Also, you aren't going to get it out
of the torque converter, so you are still going to have a bit of old ATF in
there, too. When you actually change the oil, do it somewhere that you
don't mind getting oily. The first couple of times until you get practice
are messy. Reason: no drain plug. The fluid comes out all around the pan.
Loosen it all around, then loosen it so that one of the back corners lowers
first. Be patient as you do this. If you don't, the pan will drop and slop
and passerbys will learn the extent of your vocabulary. When you put it
back together, use a combination of RTV and the cork or rubber gasket in
the kit. Don't over tighten the pan bolts. I believe specs call for about
12-15 inch-lbs and that ain't much. They should be tight enough to stay in,
but not destroy the gasket, the same as you would do valve covers.

Good luck!!!!!

I still have my hair and my teeth, but my pancreas doesn't work too well.


- -John

jmlagron tenet.edu
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI AOD
Macintosh G3/233 minitower (When speed counts, count on Macintosh)
1979 MC (my son is rebellious)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:05:10 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Correct trans & case lube

> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 11:34:33 -0700
> From: Marko Maryniak
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Correct trans & case lube

> 80W90, and for the tranny and for the transfer case, you shud use
> 50W
> motor oil! Really!

You guys are always coming up with stuff I have to look up and then I
forget to look it up and ...........this is a new one on me, I always
put 90wt in anything with a cast iron case (except engines).

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 14:10:28 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Freeze plugs

I have a question about freeze plugs. I have one that has a pin hole rusted
in the center. Keep in mind that I live in the middle of Texas where it
doesn't get very cold or cold for very long at a time. I also maintain my
antifreeze religously. The rubber freeze plugs are a snap to install. Is
there a bad downside that I should be aware of? I wish we didn't have the
freeze plug feature because we really don't need them down here. Are they
used when casting the block, too? The last thing I need is for the dang
thing to shoot out in the middle of July.


- -John

jmlagron tenet.edu
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI AOD
Macintosh G3/233 minitower (When speed counts, count on Macintosh)
1979 MC (my son is rebellious)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:12:38 -0400
From: DC Beatty
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock Intake--Steve D.

Hey Steve. Just out of curiosity, if you had it to do over again, what
intake would you choose? Would you stick to the behemoth Ford intake (Ow!=
!
My Sternum!) or would you look for another aftermarket?

Just curious. When I get the cash I want to upgrade to a 4V. =


Thanks, =


Drew Beatty
1967 F100 352 (soon to be 390)
1974 Maverick 302

wrote:

The e-brock performer wasn't my first choice for manifolds, but it was th=
e
only one I was likely to slide past the CA smog-nazis so that's what I
bought.
Now that SB-42 has passed, I wish I had something else...

Steve =


Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/>>
=

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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 20:52:20 GMT
From: wayside cyberhighway.net (Rob Patelke)
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Correct trans & case lube

On Fri, 15 May 1998 11:34:33 -0700, you wrote:

>
>Altho Steve's T-18 may go around marking its territory with 90W gear =
oil,
>my genuine 67 Ford and Mercury Centennial Edition Truck Owner's Manual
>(okay, enough bragging) says that for the front and rear diffs you shud =
use
> 80W90, and for the tranny and for the transfer case, you shud use 50W
>motor oil! Really! =20
>
>I wonder how this wud work, and if it wud cut down on the whine at all. =
=20
>
My '71 owner's manual specifies 30W in the winter; since I don't drive =
the
'71 very far, I'm running 30W in it year round
When I bought it, it had 50W in it, and in the cold, it wanted to kill =
the
engine or move out of the driveway in neutral when I let out out the
clutch. Also, shifting was quite the chore
>By the way, my repro FoMoCo lube stickers from Jim Osborn also say to =
use
>50W. =20
>
>Wud somebody in the know please let me know what to do, before I go =
filling
>my newly rebuilt and painted transfer case with the wrong liquid.
My '78 manual sez "standard transmission lubricant" for the transfer case
and for the standard trannies available in '78.
>
>
>Thanks!
>
>
>marko in vancouver
>marko helix.net
>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:54:23 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Freeze plugs

> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 14:10:28 -0500
> From: "John LaGrone"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Freeze plugs

> I have a question about freeze plugs. I have one that has a pin hole
> rusted in the center. Keep in mind that I live in the middle of
> Texas where it doesn't get very cold or cold for very long at a
> time. I also maintain my antifreeze religously. The rubber freeze
> plugs are a snap to install. Is there a bad downside that I should

First these holes are not there to protect the engine in case of
frost, they are simply casting clean out holes which must be plugged
to hold water so they use thin sheet metal cups since they are cheap
and easy to press in on an assy line. If you've ever seen ice freeze
where it could move through a small opening such as a coke bottle you
will notice that it will break the bottle long before it will squeeze
through that hole.........:-)

The rubber ones I've seen tend to fall apart and the rubber gets into....


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