61-79-list-digest Friday, May 15 1998 Volume 02 : Number 276



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - Split wood
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Politics, etc [Was Charging Systems]
Re: FTE 61-79 - Balanced and Blueprinted
Re: FTE 61-79 - Balanced and Blueprinted
Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?
FTE 61-79 - Vehicle lift update
FTE 61-79 - 360/390
FTE 61-79 - motor mounts
Re: FTE 61-79 - Brains
FTE 61-79 - Blad Spot...
FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge
Re: FTE 61-79 - Having a blast in Pigeon Forge
Re: FTE 61-79 - Split wood
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Politics, etc [Was Charging Systems]
FTE 61-79 - Need Advise/Trans fluid change
FTE 61-79 - Friendship and FEs
FTE 61-79 - FW: Help Needed!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Split wood
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Politics, etc [Was Charging Systems]
Re: FTE 61-79 - FW: Help Needed!
Re: FTE 61-79 - FW: Help Needed!
Re: FTE 61-79 - FW: Help Needed!

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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:25:13 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Split wood

> From: am14 chrysler.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Split wood
> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:44:33 -0400

> Did the Ax bounce, Gary???????? Did you ever try to split a Gum
> tree???? Blackgum or Sweetgum???? Doesn't matter!!! They don't
> split very well, even after a couple month after being cut down.

Didn't really know my woods all that well Azie but was told by an old
timer it was red elm and had been a dead fall (very huge tree) for
some time so it was cured but still very, very stringy. You
literally had to pull the pieces apart after splitting and hack the
strings with an ax.

If I had my druthers I'd never touch anything but red oak or
walnut.........:-) I burn oil now so it's all moot anyway :-) Too
dang old and lazy to do all that work :-( Wood cutting kept food on
the table while I was laid off and heated my house for some 5 or 6
years till my family started reacting to the smoke and we had to give
it up. (asthma) I really liked the wood heat, something natural or
earthy about it I guess and the fire was kind of relaxing when you
looked at it for a while :-) Fruit trees had the best smell I think,
like apple and cherry etc. but red oak came in a close second IMHO
:-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:34:22 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Politics, etc [Was Charging Systems]

> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 22:35:00 -0700
> From: Pat Brown
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Politics, etc [Was Charging Systems]

> Hey Stu, I'd love to be a long-haired hippie, but
> it looks silly with my big bald spot in the middle:-) So Just sign
> me . . .

Gallagher (spelling?) does all right with that setup :-) We had an
engineer here that used to let his grow till it looked like friar
Tuck or Bozo. There are ways to make yourself presentable even with
the bald center but his approach didn't work :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:55:22 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Balanced and Blueprinted

> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 15:13:13 -0600
> From: Ryan Dorman
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Balanced and Blueprinted

> Now in terms that most people can understand..
> >
> > All mechanical parts have tolerances but are designed to work
> > optimally at a specific dimension which is usually called the

Whatdayamean??? I understood it perfectly :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:02:59 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Balanced and Blueprinted

> From: "Bill Beyer"
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Balanced and Blueprinted
> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 15:45:45 -0700

> Well thank you for making sure that even us dimwits can understand
> it...
>
> However, balancing doesn't add any power, it simply extends the
> longevity of the engine by reducing wear and tear. The only way it
> would "rap up faster" is if you significantly lightened all of the

Weeeeeeell, maybe but I think some types of racing, like drag racing
where miliseconds can make or break your bank the balancing may
reduce harmonics enough to reduce vibration induced friction or
opposing inertia forces that it could make a difference but from my
non racing bench this is all theoretical. For the average Joe
putting his truck engine together I totally agree, balancing will
make driving it more fun, not more powerfull :-) Blueprinting
OTOH........:-)

I once had a Norton Atlas 750 and dreamed about balancing
SOMETHING...............ANYTHING!........:-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:09:16 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?

> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:24:22 -0600
> From: Ryan Dorman
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?

> > > though you'll need things like motor mounts (L&L
> > > has' em with a lifetime warranty for $100)
> >
> > $100??? Your local parts house has them for around $40 (same
> > warranty,same mount, differant paint)

> > "But hey, Thats just my oppinion. I could be wrong"

Sorry, but you are wrong, the mounts he was talking about are "swap"
mounts that allow you to use the original frame bracket but mount a
different engine which was never used in that application from the
factory. You won't find that kind of mount at auto parts unless they
happen to cater to that crowd and then you'll pay $99 like the rest
of us :-)

Now............If I'm wrong, give me the phone number of the place so
I can order a few hundred sets and retire on the profits.......:-)
If I'd known about L&L 10 years ago I would have bought their mounts
instead of reinventing the wheel to mount my 460 in my van :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:19:46 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Vehicle lift update

Well the concrete is poured for the sub floor anchor and re rod is in
place. Looks really sturdy once the floor is poured on top with all
that re rod. Had trouble determining the level due to the fact that
there is a small amount of play in the posts and they seem to have a
different set at different heights. I finally took the average at
the bottom and top and let it go. Probably have to be off quite a
bit to influence the strength of the posts anyway so I gave up.

Now I get to dig all the rat walls and get the crew lined up for the
floor and soon I'll be able to get a shot of the bronco sitting 6'
off the floor and it's owner in 7th heaven :-)

I'll try to pick slow days to keep y'all posted :-) Too bad you
can't send graphics in a post or I'd make the smiley much bigger :-)


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:27:40 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 360/390

Tom in Reno wrote: >>Steve,
Thanks for the info. Sounds like you did everything I just did with my 360.
The cam I picked was a 194/204 50 .46,.48. not quite as agressive as
yours. How does the power band work out for yours? My mechanic said that he
thought the expense for building into
a 390 would not really be worth it. What don't you like about the intake? I
kept my stock intake - hope it will be OK.


Take it from an old codger that has tried it on many occasions!!!! That
.270" increase in stroke of the 390 over the 360 makes a world of
difference. Even better yet the extra .200" increase in stroke the 410 has
over the 390 is even more impressive. The 410 can be had from the 360. It
is a bit more complex than the 390 from the 360, but in my book, it is well
worth it.

Marko in Vancouver!!!!!!!!! Do you agree??????????

I know you weren't addressing any comments to me, but I just had to put in
my $.015 worth.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:50:38 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - motor mounts

Bryan writes: >>$100??? Your local parts house has them for around $40
(same warranty,same
> mount, differant paint)
>
> "Style vs Substance"
> "A HUMVEE being driven thru the jungles of Borneo is a tool."
> "A HUMVEE squeezing into a parking spot on Rodeo drive is being driven by
a
> TOOL!!"
> "Dennis Miller"
>
> My point is: Do you consider paying an extra $60 for a pretty little L&L
decal
> worthwhile?
> If so change your name to Snap-On...
>
> "But hey, Thats just my oppinion. I could be wrong"
> --


Don't think those $40. motor mounts from your local parts house will
work!!!! The 78/79 Bronco's were not offered with 460, so factory never
made a mount for it. 2WD pickups were offered with 460, but not any 4X4's,
and the mounts are very different.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:12:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: CLARE WATERMAN
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brains

no brain surgery -- i usually chop the heads off before i do an experiment
;)


Clare M. Waterman-Storer, Ph.D.
Department of Biology
University of North Carolina
Chapel Hill, NC, 27599-3280

T: (919)-962-2354
F: (919)-962-1625


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 06:16:51 PDT
From: "Jay Branscome"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Blad Spot...

I know how to take care of the bald spot.

1. Buy a rug.
2. Hair implants.
3. Wear a Hat with Ford on it.
4. Wear a hat with a picture of an old Ford on it.
5. Wear a hat with a picture of your old Ford on it.
6. Have the Ford oval tattood on the bald spot.
Jay B. 1965 F-100 Custom Cab Long Bed

JBMAN100 Hotmail.com

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/nashville/4134
______________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:33:04 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge

I'll be on my way noon today. I'm staying "Best Western" on Parkway.
Have no idea how far that is from the activities, but I hope to see several
of you there. I'll check in at the booth as soon as we get up tomorrow,
since we will not arrive in time to do anything tonight.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:45:37 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Having a blast in Pigeon Forge

At 10:29 PM 5/14/98 -0400, you wrote:
>This is Ken Payne, using John Miller's laptop from the Pigeon Forge
>F100 Supernationals. Just wanted to let everyone know we're having
>a blast. The show hasn't even started yet an already 8 list members
>has stopped by.
>
>Deacon, you're missed!
>
>Well gotta, go. Running out of battery power.
>
>Ken,
>CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts.

Wait for me, I'll be there in the morning!!

This is killin me!
stu

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:02:21 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Split wood

Did I accidentally stumble into that darn Wood Splitters' LIST-SERV again?

Is this wood for a Ford Truck bed?



Thanks for your message at 07:25 AM 5/15/98 +0000, Gary, 78 BBB. Your
message was:
>> From: am14 chrysler.com
>> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Split wood
>> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:44:33 -0400
>
>> Did the Ax bounce, Gary???????? Did you ever try to split a Gum
>> tree???? Blackgum or Sweetgum???? Doesn't matter!!! They don't
>> split very well, even after a couple month after being cut down.
>
>Didn't really know my woods all that well Azie but was told by an old
>timer it was red elm and had been a dead fall (very huge tree) for
>some time so it was cured but still very, very stringy. You
>literally had to pull the pieces apart after splitting and hack the
>strings with an ax.
>
>If I had my druthers I'd never touch anything but red oak or
>walnut.........:-) I burn oil now so it's all moot anyway :-) Too
>dang old and lazy to do all that work :-( Wood cutting kept food on
>the table while I was laid off and heated my house for some 5 or 6
>years till my family started reacting to the smoke and we had to give
>it up. (asthma) I really liked the wood heat, something natural or
>earthy about it I guess and the fire was kind of relaxing when you
>looked at it for a while :-) Fruit trees had the best smell I think,
>like apple and cherry etc. but red oak came in a close second IMHO
>:-)
>
>78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
>78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
>78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
>
>-- Gary --


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:03:52 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Politics, etc [Was Charging Systems]

Thanks for your message at 07:34 AM 5/15/98 +0000, Gary, 78 BBB. Your
message was:
>> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 22:35:00 -0700
>> From: Pat Brown
>> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Politics, etc [Was Charging Systems]

ANd now I've somehow gone into the Hair Dresser's LIST_SERV.

>Gallagher (spelling?) does all right with that setup :-) We had an
>engineer here that used to let his grow till it looked like friar
>Tuck or Bozo. There are ways to make yourself presentable even with
>the bald center but his approach didn't work :-)
>
>78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
>78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
>78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
>
>-- Gary --
>= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
>Send posts to: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
>"unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the message body.
>=======================================================================
>
>

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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:20:00 -0400
From: "Hammell, John"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Need Advise/Trans fluid change

I am about to challange my limited mechanical skills and try to change
my tranny fluid this weekend in my 67 F250 Camper Special. I believe
that it's a C6 by looking at the shape of the pan, but according to the
Red book and the VIN it's supposed to be a C4. Anyway, I got the screen
and gasket kits for both so I'm not stuck. I've been told that I should
keep the fluid I drain out in case the trans dosen't like the new stuff.
I realize I should only use TYPE F, and that's one of the reason's I'm
changing it, because I found out, looking through some of the receipts
that the previous owner gave me when I brought the truck, I am running
Dextron/Mercon ? through it! Could that also be the reason that she
dosen't want to shift in the morning before she goes about 4-5 miles??
What should I look for when dropping the pan as far as damage or any
type of excessive wear? Is that something I'll even be able to see from
that view?
Also, do the bolts on the pan have to be torqued to a specific # or can
I just tighten them up in any order??
Is changing the tranny fluid as simple as changing the oil??
Any advise or guidence would be much appreciated!!!!!!

J. Hammell
67 F250 Camper Special 352 V8
83 F150 300 Inline 6(only 72,7000+ orig.miles-trying to find a good home
for her!!!)
Hammej01 imsint.com
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:20:08 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Friendship and FEs

Very good, Chris. I like it, I like it.

Deacon, I didn't take it as a threat. In the "right to carry" class they
tell you that if you aren't prpepared to kill someone and spend some time
in jail, then you aren't prepared to shoot to carry.

Pat, just don't come up the stairs at 3 a.m. and you're safe from me.

Steve is right about the shop manuals. Get an original, not the Motors or
Chilton variety if you are doing anything serious. I has a 67 Caddy
convertible that I gave $50 for. The first step in the Motors manual was
always "remove engine and transmission as a unit". Hogwash. I had an 85
Caddy that no one could fix so I bought a full set of factory manuals,
learned how to talk to the on board computers, and then sold the car. It
and the 81 and 82 are big reasons my wife now has a Towncar.

Sorry, I forgot who described in detail the factory rebuilt block, but I
have a similar story. A friend bought a short block that had two cylinders
bored 60 over, 3 bored 40 over, and the rest had just been reamed and rung.
As far as we knew each cylinder had the correct rings. There were more
problems as the engine only ran two weeks.

I thoroughly enjoyed the 390 rebuild saga. I once had a timing chain so
loose that it wore a hole in the cover.

I have some tire questions. My 79 F150 has the original steel wheels, five
lug 15". I currently have P235/75 passenger car tires all around. Does
anyone know how wide my wheels are? I think I want to put P205/70s on the
front and something like P245/70s or 65s on the back. Will they work on my
stock wheels? Any suggestions or alternatives? This is 99.9% a street use
truck.

I also want ot know about R134a Freon retrofits. I have heard that you need
new hoses and seals because R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 and leaks
easier. I heard the other day that you don't. What's the scoop? Any URLs
where I can read more?

Clare, I am still trying to figure out how to get my e-mail during summer
break. I think I'm going to fall way behind.


- -John

jmlagron tenet.edu
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI AOD
Macintosh G3/233 minitower (When speed counts, count on Macintosh)
1979 MC (my son is rebellious)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:24:00 -0400
From: "Hammell, John"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FW: Help Needed!

----------
From: Hammell, John
To: FORD TRUCKS
Subject: FW: Help Needed!
Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 8:26AM

Re-sending! I realized I have been sending to the wrong address!!!!!!!!
----------
From: Hammell, John
To: FORD TRUCKS
Subject: Help Needed!
Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 4:19PM

I'm looking for a radiator for my 67 Camper Special, 352ci. I've tried
Obsolete and Ford recycler's with no luck. Of course the local radiator
shop had no luck in repairing it! Will it really be that diffucult to
locate one? Also, what can I expect as far as $$$ to pay for one?!
Any help and info will be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!

John Hammell
Hammejo1 imsint.com
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:41:12 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Split wood

> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:02:21 -0700
> From: Dennis Pearson
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Split wood

> Did I accidentally stumble into that darn Wood Splitters' LIST-SERV
> again?
>
> Is this wood for a Ford Truck bed?

To be hauled in a FORD truck bed :-) My lift is almost done and you
aint goin ta rile me today :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:42:47 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Politics, etc [Was Charging Systems]

> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:03:52 -0700
> From: Dennis Pearson
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Politics, etc [Was Charging Systems]

> ANd now I've somehow gone into the Hair Dresser's LIST_SERV.
>
> >Gallagher (spelling?) does all right with that setup :-) We had
> an
> >engineer here that used to let his grow till it looked like friar

Engineer designs ford trucks :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 11:33:41 -0400
From: FORD-TRUCK-70 webtv.net (RANDY D)
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FW: Help Needed!

I bought 1 for my 70 f100 last year cost $120.00
new fits perfect bought it at the local spring and radiator shop . give
me all the information about your truck and i will call and get a price
for you.
hope this helps

RANDY
1970 - F100 SWB . 2WD . 351W
1978 - F150 LWB . 2WD . 351M
FORD-TRUCK-70 WEBTV.NET
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:21:42 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FW: Help Needed!

>I'm looking for a radiator for my 67 Camper Special, 352ci. I've tried
>Obsolete and Ford recycler's with no luck. Of course the local radiator
>shop had no luck in repairing it! Will it really be that diffucult to
>locate one? Also, what can I expect as far as $$$ to pay for one?!
>Any help and info will be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!
>
>John Hammell

What's the difference between the standard rad and the camp special?
Don't they have the same core size (26"w x 20"h) but the camp special is
4-row instead of 3?
I bought a brand new 3-row modine stock replacement rad for my '71 (390)
a couple years ago. My local rad shop had it in stock, and it cost $200
out the door.
I would think that the 4 row should be fairly easy to find also, but
a little more expensive...

Steve

Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

"When you stop learning, stop listening, stop looking
and asking questions, always new questions,
then it is time to die." -- Lillian Smith

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:22:17 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FW: Help Needed!

> From: "Hammell, John"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - FW: Help Needed!
> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:24:00 -0400

> I'm looking for a radiator for my 67 Camper Special, 352ci. I've
> tried Obsolete and Ford recycler's with no luck. Of course the local....


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