61-79-list-digest Thursday, May 14 1998 Volume 02 : Number 274



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Ford truck designation
Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s
FTE 61-79 - Tires on a 9"
Re: FTE 61-79 - Tires on a 9"
FTE 61-79 - Steves FE saga
Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 1965 F-100 running and being driven
FTE 61-79 - What is the real difference between a 360 and 390?
FTE 61-79 - RE: Balanced and Blueprinted
FTE 61-79 - body mounts
FTE 61-79 - directions
Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s
Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s
Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s
FTE 61-79 - 63 f100 needs help
Re: FTE 61-79 - Steves FE saga
Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?
FTE 61-79 - Springs
Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s
FTE 61-79 - Bronco springs
FTE 61-79 - Split wood
FTE 61-79 - 352
Re: FTE 61-79 - Balanced and Blueprinted

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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:20:53 -0700
From: tom
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Ford truck designation

Hi Guys,
Oops! I made a mistake. I dug out my stuff from Dearborn and found that the truck
designation was NOT F-111 but it is F-113. In Ford-ese that means

an F-100 factory 4x4, GVW 5600, short bed,
originally equipped with 292 MD V-8, 4 spd
Warner T-98A, Dana 24, 3.92 axles.

Sorry for the confusion
Tom
Gettin' ready to work on a driveshaft in Reno,NV


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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:29:42 -0400
From: "Clare Waterman-Storer, Ph.D."
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s

> Archive Steve's post on what he did with his engine as a referance
> guide.

Is there an archive kept on this list or do you have this post copied?

clare
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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:31:40 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Tires on a 9"

Gary writes: >>Only 1800#? on 250 springs? Oh, but you said 9" didn't
you? That's the rub. Can't get tires good enough for much more than
that, dang! I can easily haul 2 tons on mine but the tires can't handle
it. Got to find some 16", 5 lug, 5.5" bold circle rims...........:-(

I used to get 8 plys for 15" rims. Haven't tried in several years, but
I would think they are still available in 6 ply or 8 ply ratings (I
think they call this load range "D" & "E" now.)

Azie
Ardmore, Al.
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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:44:05 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Tires on a 9"

> From: am14 chrysler.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Tires on a 9"
> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:31:40 -0400

> I used to get 8 plys for 15" rims. Haven't tried in several years,
> but I would think they are still available in 6 ply or 8 ply ratings
> (I think they call this load range "D" & "E" now.)

Actually I'm being a cheapskate Azie. I want the 16" rims so I can
get used HD tires. It's dang near impossible to find 6 or 8 ply
tires in the used piles for 15". :-)

I can get the Cooper 6 ply which gives me a fair improvement on the
load capacity but they're $100 ea. and I only do this once in a blue
moon so I just wanted some for special occasions :-)

8 plys would be really cool but probably dry rot before I get my
money out of them. Slipperyer than snake snot on wet pavement
too....

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:45:21 -0700
From: tom
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Steves FE saga

Steve,
Thanks for the info. Sounds like you did everything I just did with my 360. The cam I
picked was a 194/204 50 .46,.48. not quite as agressive as yours. How does the power
band work out for yours? My mechanic said that he thought the expense for building into
a 390 would not really be worth it.
What don't you like about the intake? I kept my stock intake - hope it will be OK.

Tom
Reno,NV

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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:30:56 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s

From: Clare Waterman-Storer, Ph.D.
>Is there an archive kept on this list or do you have this post copied?

You can find the archives at http://www.ford-trucks.com/ But Steve
just posted what he did to his 390 yesterday, so it will be a while
before it's archived. I just so happen to still have a copy of his post
if you need it. It's under the subject: Steve's FE saga.

Come on Doc. Don't you think I'm just a little bit amusing? :)
Later!

Deacon
deconblu gte.net
=============================
Nuke the unborn baby whales.
=============================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/



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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:39:24 PDT
From: "Jay Branscome"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 1965 F-100 running and being driven

>Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:13:24 -0500
>From: "Dennis K. Austin"
>To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 1965 F-100 running and being driven
>Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>
>> Well guys, I finally did it! I got the '65 converted to disc brakes
from a '74
>> truck and replace all bushings and steering rods. Got a '77 NP435,
and a rear
>> end from a '74 Ranger. Its all together and its driveable and I am
driving it
>> just for fun.. Ken and I had a lot of e-mail going back and forth on
this months
>> ago. With all new brake lines and some help from friends and of
course you all
>> this thing cruises nicely. I had it aligned at a tire shop and the
guy said it
>> was almost right on... was real easy to align.
>
>I ended up with a slight slammed look in the front. It sounds healthy
and seems to
>want to get break away from my control when stomping on it in second
gear. It will
>rip the 275's up the concrete street which is what I did. Its pure
truck! But, I
>will keep enhancing it to quite down the ride. I am not sure if I like
the NP435
>yet. Maybe I should have gone C4 or C6? But, I have only been driving
it for two
>days now.
>
>As soon as I get it shinny I will e-mail a photo to Ken.
>
>-=DENNIS=-
>
>= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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>
Dennis,
I have been thinking of converting to disk on my 65 Long Bed. What year
truck did you get the parts from and what parts did you need to get?
Thanks
Jay B. 1965 F-100 Custom Cab Long Bed

JBMAN100 Hotmail.com

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/nashville/4134
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:04:55 -0700
From: tom
Subject: FTE 61-79 - What is the real difference between a 360 and 390?

A 390 is basically a stroked 360. Different crank, rods and pistons to allow for
greater piston travel. the pistons have cut skirts to allow for clearance of the
rods.

Tom
Reno,NV

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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:27:23 -0700
From: "Hogan, Tom"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Balanced and Blueprinted

P. J.
"Balanced and Blueprinted" referrs to an in-depth verification process
performed during the rebuild. Balanced referrs to the reciprocating
assembly (Crank, rods, pistons). The balancing process makes sure that
all of these components will live and move together without generating
damaging vibrations. Blueprinting referrs to checking all of the
clearances (main and rod bearings, ring gap, valve to pistion etc) and
volumes (Cylinder heads etc) and making sure they are correct and or
equal from cylinder to cylinder. The process can involve a trial fit of
the engine to verify various measurements. It can also be time
consuming but is really the best insurance to a well running long
lasting engine.



- ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 01:31:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: "P.J. Warren"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Balanced and Blueprinted

Hey Everybody,
I'm just curious, I read Steve's post about wanting to have an
engine "balanced and blueprinted." What exactly do you mean by this?
My
experience as a shadetree mechanic has been well, I got to watch Dad and
get tools or a beer for him.

P.J. Warren

**************************************
Broke college student who can't afford
a truck, but I keep a droolin and a
dreamin
**************************************
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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:31:56 -0400
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - body mounts

Sorry about this guys,

Someone told me of a place that sells the rubber body mounts, much
cheaper than Ford, for a 78 Bronco. I must have lost that E-mail.
Anyone own up to this info??

Thanks

OX
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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:31:40 -0400
From: FORD-TRUCK-70 webtv.net (RANDY D)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - directions

Looks like i might get to go to the show on saturday :-) trying to get a
couple of my friends to go also . I am coming from WV . i have the
directions to pigon forge but after i get there where do i go from
there. i will be coming south on US 441. THANKS for any help hope to see
you there :-)

RANDY
1970 - F100 SWB . 2WD . 351W
1978 - F150 LWB . 2WD . 351M
FORD-TRUCK-70 WEBTV.NET
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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 12:34:58 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s

>Come on Doc. Don't you think I'm just a little bit amusing? :)


Don't go there Clare!!!! He's settin you up!!
I've seen it a million times, Just like fishin for catfish!! He drops the
worm in front of your face and then BAM!! You're supper!! A fillet waiting
for cornmeal and hot oil!
:)

Deacon, to make it even better, Sgt William Whited said there is no legal
problem with returning to the states with Cuban Cohiba Robustos!!!!!!!
The big question is............
How do I get there?????? It's a shame good Cuban "Dog Rockets" are so hard
to come by!

Stu
Nuke GM!

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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:50:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: CLARE WATERMAN
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s

On Thu, 14 May 1998, Deacon wrote:
>
> Come on Doc. Don't you think I'm just a little bit amusing? :)


a real eye-roller.......


(i need two email addresses, one for work, where i dont get a bunch of
s**t for the phd and one for this list where my truck is more important my
brains) or should i say how i apply my brains to my truck is more
important than how i apply it to my microscope

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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:07:32 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s

> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 12:34:58 -0600 (CST)
> From: Stu Varner
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s

> legal problem with returning to the states with Cuban Cohiba
> Robustos!!!!!!! The big question is............ How do I get
> there??????

Many of them came here on little boats.............:-) Their quest
wasn't as important as yours I bet :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 15:22:50 +0000
From: Kevin Vaughan
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 63 f100 needs help

63 needs new tube in steer column 3 speed mine is worn out like to put
in something newer. or maybe floor shifter ,its just a get around town
truck can't afford to redowhole lot on truck . i just love to putt
around town with it.would like to beef it up with heavyer springs so i
can haul some stuff in it, it has a223-6 rebuilt about 2 years ago
ipaid2500.00 5 years ago maybe to much but loved it from day one . not
much info on 63 's let me here from you motor heads before i die and go
to chevy [hel?] any info would help or ideals redoing brakes right know
ANSWER ME PLEASE drive truck for a living so i a'm in and out .
signed kevin
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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:09:58 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Steves FE saga

>Steve,
>Thanks for the info. Sounds like you did everything I just did with my 360.
The cam I
>picked was a 194/204 50 .46,.48. not quite as agressive as yours. How does
the power
>band work out for yours? My mechanic said that he thought the expense for
building into
>a 390 would not really be worth it.
>What don't you like about the intake? I kept my stock intake - hope it
will be OK.
>
>Tom
>Reno,NV

I like the cam quite well, but I think it's just a little too much duration
for my application. If my motor had about 9.5:1 compression and a decent
intake manifold I think it would be perfect, but with only 8:1 it's just a
little soggy below 15-1600 rpm. Now mind You, It still pulls good down there
and low RPM throttle response is quite good but it seems like it could do a
little more...
From 2200RPM up it *really* turns on, and just keeps pulling harder and harder
until it hits a brickwall at about 5000rpm. Above that the manifold really
chokes it dead. It's hard to say where the torque peak is, but my "butt-dyno"
guesses its probably around 34-3500 RPM.
Just for fun I might change the cam this summer to smething
more like Yours.. around 195/205 with .5" lift.
This was the first time I've ever chosen an FE cam, and it would be
interesting to try some others and get some more experiance...

Steve

Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

"When you stop learning, stop listening, stop looking
and asking questions, always new questions,
then it is time to die." -- Lillian Smith

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:24:22 -0600
From: Ryan Dorman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?

Jason K. Schechner wrote:

> > though you'll need things like motor mounts (L&L
> > has' em with a lifetime warranty for $100)
>
> $100??? Your local parts house has them for around $40 (same warranty,same
> mount, differant paint)
>
> "Style vs Substance"
> "A HUMVEE being driven thru the jungles of Borneo is a tool."
> "A HUMVEE squeezing into a parking spot on Rodeo drive is being driven by a
> TOOL!!"
> "Dennis Miller"
>
> My point is: Do you consider paying an extra $60 for a pretty little L&L decal
> worthwhile?
> If so change your name to Snap-On...
>
> "But hey, Thats just my oppinion. I could be wrong"
> --
> KC7YPJ, Ryan Dorman
> QTH: Victor ID, grid# DN431c
> ICQ #3834602
> kc7ypj pdt.net
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/5496




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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:39 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Springs

Deacon wrote in response to Steve & Rocketts question: >> It's still
raining here but during a brake in the pouring rain, I did a quick
check. Both my '73 F100 and '76 F350 have 2 1/2" wide springs and 54"
long. However the F350 has spring stops for the helper springs on the
frame. Without the spring stops the helper springs will do nothing. The
frame on the F350 is a lot bigger than the F100's. It
looks possible to do but stops will need to be added on the frame.

'73 thru mid year '77 F100 thru F350's should all be the same width &
length. Should be a bolt-in change for springs. Deacon is right on
the helper stops. If memory serves me correctly here, the F100 will
have the holes predrilled for the stops, but you will have to use bolts
where the factory used rivets. Bolts will hold if you use hard (grade
8) enough ones and tighten them good.

Memory doesn't function as well as it used to, so take this with a
grain of salt.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.
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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:26:26 -0600
From: Ryan Dorman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s

> The 390 is an excellent choice for either a car or truck. My only
> recomendations are,
> Take extra care in the proper placement of all the gaskets and lots of tlc
> when torqueing the bolts
> dont snug them then torque each 1 lightly tighten them little by little (a
> little each go round, so that everything tightens down evenly.) untill you
> have 10lbs of torque on all the bolts, then torque everyhting to spec..
> (sounds anal retentive, but will save a lot of grief down the road)
> If carelessly assembled a 390 can easily resemble a piece of swiss cheese
> (oil leaks everywhere)
> The 390 is the most problematic engine I have worked on in this department.
> And it is all avoidable if the extra care and time is taken during assembly.
>
> CLARE WATERMAN wrote:
>
> > my original question was : what should i look for in purchasing a used
> > engine??
> >
> > the reply was:
> > >
> > > Give us some back ground so we know how to direct the thread for you?
> > > Are you mechanically knowledgeable yourself?
> >
> > I am not a total goof, do all my own maintenance and repair, am a
> > good mechanical thinker and have read alot about engine design and
> > building in the past year.
> > I have been itching to try my hands at a first time attempt at home engine
> > rebuild. I found a guy that has two 390's for sale-- one for $50 that he
> > pulled out of a truck because he got a newer 460 and another that he
> > pulled out because oilpan gasket and rear seal were shot (for $200). in
> > the mean time he got his hands on a second 460. he
> > pulled the heads off the $50 one to begin to rebuild it and never got back
> > to it. he replaced the oil pan gasket and rod and main bearings on the
> > $200 one.
> >
> > > Do you plan to do most
> > > of the work yourself?
> >
> > all but machining--
> >
> > >How much do you want to invest in the project?
> > > How much time do you have to apply to this project?
> >
> > I have weekends, but there is no real time limit on the project as i have
> > a 360 in my rig that is running strong at 110,000 mi. I have a hundred
> > to $200 or so a month to play with, being realistic. I'd rather not put
> > more that $800- or so into it. Ive got some decent semi-performance
> > bolt-ons on the 360 (intake, carb, fuel pump, coil, wires) that i would
> > swap over.
> >
> > tHE MAin point of the project is a learning experience that may give me a
> > bigger stronger more efficient engine in my truck if all goes well.
> >
> > the suggestions so far have been really helpful
> >
> > TIA,
> >
> > Clare M. Waterman-Storer, Ph.D.
> > Department of Biology
> > University of North Carolina
> > Chapel Hill, NC, 27599-3280
> >
> > T: (919)-962-2354
> > F: (919)-962-1625
> >
> > = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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> > "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the message body.
> > =======================================================================
>
> --
> KC7YPJ, Ryan Dorman
> QTH: Victor ID, grid# DN431c
> ICQ #3834602
> kc7ypj pdt.net
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/5496




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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:25:45 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Bronco springs

Butts wrote: >>Could a couple of inches be gained by putting 350
springs on a 150?

Probably, but you're gonna give up a lot of ride quality.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.
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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:44:33 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Split wood

Gary writes: >>Used to go out and haul 16' logs home with my 62, F-600
flat bed and cut them up. One night I split two loads of red elm
by hand. Only the insiders can possibly know how much work that was
:-) One time we got some very well cured hickory...........don't even
ask :-

Did the Ax bounce, Gary???????? Did you ever try to split a Gum
tree???? Blackgum or Sweetgum???? Doesn't matter!!! They don't split
very well, even after a couple month after being cut down.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.
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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:53:33 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 352

Chris writes: >>Where did the 352 come from?

FE introduced in '58 as a whopping 332 cu in. All FE's have the same
bolt patterns on the blocks. There are at least 3 versions of exhaust
bolt patterns for the heads (std, GT, & CJ) One of the most reliable,
toughest, hardest working, and dependable engines ever produced IMHO.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.
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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 15:13:13 -0600
From: Ryan Dorman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Balanced and Blueprinted

Now in terms that most people can understand..
Blueprinting an engine is the proccess of matching all of the parts of the
engine as close to ideal spec's as possible(some machine work could be
required) effectively a major pain that isn't really required unless you
plan on running alchohol, you minimally blueprint an engine during the
assembly proccess already by checking all of the piston to valve etc..
clearances...
Balanceing on the other hand is a very effective method of milking
horsepower and extra life out of an engine, you want the parts that have
multiples (ie pistons, connecting rods, rocker arms)
to be as close to the same wieght as possible, thus decreasing vibration
and extending engine life and power (+ they rap up faster & can usually
withstand higher rpm's)

Gary, 78 BBB wrote:

> > Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 01:31:58 -0500 (CDT)
> > From: "P.J. Warren"
> > Subject: FTE 61-79 - Balanced and Blueprinted
>
> > I'm just curious, I read Steve's post about wanting to have an
> > engine "balanced and blueprinted." What exactly do you mean by
> > this? My experience as a shadetree mechanic has been well, I got to
> > watch Dad and get tools or a beer for him.
>
> All mechanical parts have tolerances but are designed to work
> optimally at a specific dimension which is usually called the "Mean"
> or median dimension. Some of course are plus something and minus
> nothing or visa versa. The point is that there is a size the print
> calls out as "ideal" which is what you shoot for when you "blue
> Print" an engine.
>
> In the factory they are allowed to run to either end of the spec and
> stack tolerances in less than ideal ways so the finished product can
> be less than ideal. When you blue print it you correct all these
> things.
>
> Balancing involves making the cylinder rotating and reciprocating
> parts all the same for each cylinder and then attempting to get the
> assembled weight into a range that works with the crank and power
> pulses to reduce vibration. They have formulas which take a
> percentage of the bottom end and of the top end to achieve this.
>
> Going to the max you actually make up weights which represent the
> value produced by this formula and based on the parts you actually
> have on hand and drill or grind material off the counter weights or....


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