61-79-list-digest Wednesday, May 13 1998 Volume 02 : Number 268



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - Under The Dash 8-Track Player
Re: FTE 61-79 - Some thoughts about the future of FTE
Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement
Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement
Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs
Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge
Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?
FTE 61-79 - 74 F100 RANGER SUPER CAB 390 AT
RE: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?
FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s
Re: FTE 61-79 - driveshaft
Re: FTE 61-79 - driveshaft
Re: FTE 61-79 - driveshaft
FTE 61-79 - RE: Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement
Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 family....
FTE 61-79 - Charging systems
Re: FTE 61-79 - Rope seal
Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s

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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:21:29 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Under The Dash 8-Track Player

> From: POLING4
> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 00:10:36 EDT
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Under The Dash 8-Track Player

> Hi: Anyone that knows where to buy a under the dash 8 Track player
> for 1972 F-100 please respond to this email. I am looking to add a
> factory option to my 72 F-100, I believe they were avaiable at the
> dealerships in that time frame.

My last 8 track tape died (Doors) so I'm strictly CD now :-) Still
got the player, no tapes. (home type player, not car)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:26:00 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Some thoughts about the future of FTE

> From: "Jay Branscome"
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Some thoughts about the future of FTE
> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 14:07:55 PDT

> >head lights, he seems to be oblivious to the fact that he was only
> >20' behind a very small car for 10 miles for no reason since there
> >were many places he could have passed. I hope these cry babies
> >never get so numerous as to cause laws to change against us. I
> >don't mean lift laws but even stock vehicles being taxed etc.. :-(
> >
> I would have waited till no one was around and then slowed down
> till
> the a hole passed me.

I did but then I got the bright idea to teach him a lesson so I
reciprocated and he stopped and got out and came back to my car. He
was the biggest "Galloot" I've ever seen from my tiny car vantage let
me tell you. Cured me of that kind of behavior real fast.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:47:51 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement

> From: sdelanty sonic.net
> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:12:28 -0700
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement

> Almost any first-time engine builder who has a little
> patience and is willing to ask some questions when they're not sure
> about something can do as good a job as most proffesional shops.
> Probably better, cuz You *really* care about how good a job gets
> done, and they usually just care about getting paid and going
> home.

Steve, I agree that it's fun and very satisfying but I disagree with
this statement, sorry. Been there and done that myself and there are
little things a person simply doesn't have time to learn on the first
rebuild just from reading books and asking questions. If you know
what questions to ask you can get answers, but if you don't know a
problem exists how do you phrase the question? I didn't get a real
handle on it till I actually took a local CC class on rebuilding and
bought a text book for the purpose.

They mention stuff in there I've never seen anywhere else and which
makes a big difference in how the project turns out. What I'm saying
is that if you can afford to redo the motor in a year or two then go
for it but if you can't you may be better off with a factory rebuild
because your first motor will most likely not be all that perfect.

My personal feeling is that you should start with a valve job and see
how things go and then ask questions, read books and go into the full
rebuild with some hindsight under your belt. It's the little details
that can undo all your hard work sometimes.

If you have time and money you can spare then by all means give it a
shot, that's how we learn but don't expect a factory new condition
motor on your fist attempt IMHO :-) OTOH, maybe I'm a slow learner
and non of this applies to normal people :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:51:01 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement

> From: "Deacon"
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement
> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 21:04:05 -0700

> Even if you find yourself over your head, throw it back together and
> turn it in for a short block, send the head out to a local shop.
> Rebuilding the head will bring back the most life, plus it's the
> thing most likely to be burning oil. I would send the head out first
> and see how it runs. You may save some money for your cool parts!
> Later!

Deacon, what's that old saying? "Great minds......" :-) I just
basically told him the same thing :-) That's how I started :-)


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:55:37 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs

> From: sdelanty sonic.net
> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 20:03:05 -0700
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs

> Dunno 'bout F350 springs, but I put a set of F250 "camper special"
> springs (7 leaves + 1 overload) under my '71 F100. (9" axle) I
> removed one leaf to make 6+1's and I've hauled 1800+lbs of firewood
> over 110 miles twice this year and the springs could easily have
> taken more. Sure made me wish for disk brakes tho...

Only 1800#? on 250 springs? Oh, but you said 9" didn't you? That's
the rub. Can't get tires good enough for much more than that, dang!
I can easily haul 2 tons on mine but the tires can't handle it. Got
to find some 16", 5 lug, 5.5" bold circle rims...........:-(


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:02:08 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?

> From: "Gregory A. Bunton"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?
> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 23:18:05 -0400

> Hello all, this is my first posting. I own a 78 Ford Bronco, and
> love it. I recently thought I needed a new Oil Pump...but the
> mechanic told me the engine is just about done. Now this truck is
> pretty much original....but I don't know whether to replace the
> engine or sell it. Any suggestions???

Or give it to me :-) What engine does it have? If the truck is in
pretty good shape you can fully restore it over the years and have
the best, strongest, meanest bronco ever built and all the parts are
everywhere for this model and very generic (used in many
applications).

I'd get a rebuilt engine for it or if you can do your own work a junk
yard engine and rebuild the original one (or the junk one) while you
still drive it. It all depends on your mechanical ability and pocket
book.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:14:28 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge

At 04:06 PM 5/12/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Some of you guys that have reservations, please forward to me via
>privete E-Mail the locations you are staying and rates in round
>figures, please. The Boss has given in to take off Friday noon and
>come up for the festivities Sat and return Sun. Telephone #'s would
>be a plus.
>I'd like to meet every one of you.
>Azie
>Ardmore, Al E-mail: AM14 Chrysler.com


Azie, You da' man!!! I will be staying Fri night only in Knoxville at a
friends......I will be at the 10:00 morning meeting on Saturday! Can't make
breakfast on Sunday.
Look forward to meeting you and I am so tickled the "BOSS" said you could go!

Stu

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 05:49:04 PDT
From: "Jay Branscome"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?

>From: "Gregory A. Bunton"
>To:
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?
>Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 23:18:05 -0400
>Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>
>Hello all, this is my first posting. I own a 78 Ford Bronco, and love
it.
>I recently thought I needed a new Oil Pump...but the mechanic told me
the
>engine is just about done. Now this truck is pretty much
original....but I
>don't know whether to replace the engine or sell it. Any suggestions???
>

Go out an find another engine after you get a 2nd opinion on the engine
your running if the rest of the truck is worth keeping that is.
>= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
>Send posts to: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
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>"unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the message body.
>=======================================================================
>


______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:59:00 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 74 F100 RANGER SUPER CAB 390 AT

> What came stock with a 74 F100 RANGER SUPER CAB 390 AT I have a two
>brl carb. the couple of books I have access to just tell me what was
>available not what was standard in it. The VIN# is F10YKU65503. Thanks in
>advance for any info. Semper Fi to all the Devil Dogs out there (present
>and former). Tony
>
If you are just wanting your VIN decoded it is:

F10 = F-100 2wd
Y = 360-2v V8
K = Assembled at Kansas City Truck Plant
U65503= Consecutive serial number

I would need the trans code off the plate for your tranny, it is not part
of the VIN. Are you sure this is a 390? The 360 looks just like it and is
much more common in these trucks.

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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 06:07:57 -0700
From: "Gillespie, John D."
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?

Greg. I agree with Deacon and Gary. If you have the mechanical ability and
funding: REBUILD/upgrade. The parts are readily available from local and
mail-order parts houses and if you get stuck just ask someone here either
has already done it or is doing it especially when it comes to rebuild or
upgrading using different cams/ adding electronic ignition....

From: Gregory A. Bunton
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 8:18 PM

Hello all, this is my first posting. I own a 78 Ford Bronco, and
love it.
I recently thought I needed a new Oil Pump...but the mechanic told
me the
engine is just about done. Now this truck is pretty much
original....but I
don't know whether to replace the engine or sell it. Any
suggestions???


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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:07:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: CLARE WATERMAN
Subject: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s

i think this may have been covered in this list before, but here goes
anyway.

when buying a used engine, what are some things to look for?

its a 390 out of the car and has the heads pulled off- should i be able
to see cracks w/o mangaflux?

what else to look for?


Clare M. Waterman-Storer, Ph.D.
Department of Biology
University of North Carolina
Chapel Hill, NC, 27599-3280

T: (919)-962-2354
F: (919)-962-1625


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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:12:02 -0400
From: FORD-TRUCK-70 webtv.net (RANDY D)
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - driveshaft

ok i have the part closes to the rear end off . now for the end close to
the carrierbearing it wont just slide off ? is there something that
locks it to the other part of shaft ? that is the part i cant get off .
i am going to try to take the ujoint out with it still under the truck
with a C=clamp hope this works thanks for the help.
also when i was under the truck i found out where my gas mileage is
going .RIGHT ON THE GROUND . hole in the tank . i bought
this stuff called MAGNUM STEEL it is to patch
gas tanks .ever heard of it ? hope it works .
thanks for any help :-)

RANDY
1970
F100
SWB 2WD
351w
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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:31:52 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - driveshaft

> From: FORD-TRUCK-70 webtv.net (RANDY D)
> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:12:02 -0400
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - driveshaft

> ok i have the part closes to the rear end off . now for the end
> close to the carrierbearing it wont just slide off ? is there
> something that locks it to the other part of shaft ? that is the
> part i cant get off . i am going to try to take the ujoint out with
> it still under the truck with a C=clamp hope this works thanks for
> the help.

There may be a seal on the splines which is in a cap that unscrews.
The seal has no splines in it so catches on the splines when you try
to pull it off. Look for something on the end of the rear shaft that
looks like a cap and use some big channel locks to unscrew it if you
find this to be true.

Getting the u joint out unter the truck is going to be a real
challenge :-(

> also when i was under the truck i found out where my gas mileage is
> going .RIGHT ON THE GROUND . hole in the tank . i bought this stuff
> called MAGNUM STEEL it is to patch gas tanks .ever heard of it ?
> hope it works . thanks for any help :-)

My son used JB weld on his oil pan with oil still dripping out the
hole and it actually held up for 2 years so far. Unbelievable! :-)


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:33:01 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - driveshaft

also when i was under the truck i found out where my gas mileage is
>going .RIGHT ON THE GROUND . hole in the tank . i bought
>this stuff called MAGNUM STEEL it is to patch
>gas tanks .ever heard of it ? hope it works .

I have heard it is only a temp. fix!
I would Start looking for a new tank asap.

>thanks for any help :-)

All those wonderful West Virginia winters and NaCl they slap on the ground
to prevent
accidental pileups! :) I do miss my homestate of West Virginia but, boy,
the mild winters here in Tennessee are great!

Stu
Nuke GM!
visit my homepage at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/stu


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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:41:40 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement

Forwarded for: DC Beatty

I personally don't trust the engine supplier folks. I have heard that man=
y
of them tend to s*bscribe to the philosophy of "quantity over quality." =


If I were you I'd ask around a-bit and find a reputable machine shop with=
a
bunch of old crusty-looking experienced guys working there. You'll need
machine work anyway, and they can assemble it for you if you choose not t=
o.
If it goes bad, they're local and they get to try it again for free. Righ=
t?


I'm partial to putting them together myself, however. I got the "excessiv=
e
compulsive" or whatever disease that is. I tend to make enemies at repair=

places 'cause I'm always hanging around bothering them making sure they d=
o
it right-- and also I've assembled motors before. If you can get hold of =
a
clean garage and the few necessary tools, I'd say go for it and assemble =
it
yourself. =


You'd be *amazed* at what a fresh motor would do for the truck's outlook =
on
life!!

Good luck,

Drew Beatty
1967 F100 352 (soon to be 390)
1974 Maverick 302



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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:04:53 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 family....

The 351M/400 both have the same block and heads. They have the same
bellhousing bolt pattern as the 429/460 big blocks. The 351C has the same
heads but a shorter block. It has the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the
289/302/351W. Is a 351M a big block or a small block? IMHO you can call it
a big small block but I think most would put it in the small block
category. For more info check out this web site:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.wrljet.com/engines/

- ----------
> From: Bear
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - 351 family....
> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 1998 1:50 AM
>
> I have a 351 M and I am trying to figure out whether it is a big block or
if
> it is a small block. I also want to know about the other 351's (i.e.
> Windsor, Cleveland) Big? Small? And also: How do you tell the
difference?
> (So that I don't have to ask again).
>
> Thanks for the help,
> Shane
>
> E-mail :  bear269 sparc.isl.net
> Please view my home page at:
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.isl.net/~bear269/home
>
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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> =======================================================================
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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:18:10 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems

I don't want to start a new war, but......

If your charging system is working correctly, when the battery is
disconnected and fully charged, it should read 12 volts on a volt meter.
When everything is hooked up and working properly, a voltage reading across
the battery terminals should read 13.8 volts regardless of engine RPM or
load. If voltage drops and stays dropped when you turn on the air, lights,
and stereo, etc., then either the voltage regulator is not working or the
alternator itself is not working. (Same difference on later models since
they are all made together.) Older systems with external regulators will
show a slight drop in voltage at idle. If your charging system outputs too
much voltage, you will be buying a lot of light bulbs. If your system
doesn't output enough voltage, you run your battery down and get stranded.
You can drive a long way if you have a good battery. I drove my EFI Towncar
about 85 miles awhile back with a bad alternator. Luckily it made it to the
garage before the car quit.

If you can afford it, replace your entire alternator. If you decide to
rebuild it yourself, do a complete rebuild including brushes, bearings,
diode trio, etc. If one thing is worn out, then everything else is close
behind.

John: A small bit of advice on your engine refurbishing. Be prepared to go
a different route once you get the engine apart. If you have excessive wear
in the cylinders, boring may not be an option and you may have to go with a
short block. I'm an oddball geek redneck, but I prefer to do something
myself if at all possible. There is not a feeling that can compare to the
rush when someone rubber necks your truck and you can tell them "Yep, I did
it all." All of the pros and cons to factory rebuilds have been 100%
correct.

OK guys and gals, let's get two things straight, then you can throw me off
the list if you like.
1.) I'm 6'2" and tip the scales at near 200. I've had small cars, I've had
Japanese and German cars. I hate 'em and I'm not driving them. I've had
front wheel drive and I don't care for it either. I drive big, old cars and
trucks because I like them, I can afford the gas, I don't have a payment
and I'm sick of the scum sucking greenie socialists that want to outlaw
anything that is remotely fun. Freon 12 doesn't eat the ozone. Dupont's
patent expired and anyone can make it now. Almost everyone does except in
the US. The Freon black market from Mexico is bigger than cocaine.
2.) I've lived long enough to know that when I can't legally own guns
anymore, then I'll own them illegally. But you will never read about my
final stand off with the "law" because when that time comes you will only
be reading what the government wants you to read. That's not living in my
book.

This tirade is not directed at any individual. I absolutely totally
rerspect your right to disagree with me. This list has become an addiction.
I couldn't stand to read the entire anti-SUV site. Consumer Ripoffs is the
last organization that I would trust with testing results. They are a major
contributor to the decline in American goods being produced in America. If
you tell people that something is bad, eventually they will believe it
whether it is true or not. It's real funny to me how Americans can't make a
decent product (in their opinion), but they can spring for the bucks to buy
their inaccurate crummy research.

BUY AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


- -John

jmlagron tenet.edu
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI AOD
1979 MC (my son is rebellious)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:26:33 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rope seal

> From: wayside cyberhighway.net (Rob Patelke)
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rope seal
> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 23:12:54 GMT
> Can the rope seal be replaced with a neoprene (or whatever is used
> these days) without any other changes? Rob '71 F100, 360 4Spd

I believe they can but I can't remember ever doing it so not sure. A
quick call to the parts store can probably verify this?

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:25:48 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s

From: CLARE WATERMAN
>its a 390 out of the car and has the heads pulled off- should i be
able
>to see cracks w/o mangaflux?

Magnaflux is a way of seeing non surface or small cracks that open
under pressure. You don't need to magnaflux for cracks you can see. I
would wonder why the heads are off. If the car was wrecked and the owner
wanted to keep a good engine, why disassemble it? If you can get it
cheap ($100- 200) it may be worth the risk. I would take a chance....


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